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Wing Chun in relation to Shaolin

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  • Wing Chun in relation to Shaolin

    I'm wondering... we all know that Wing Chun was invented by Ng Mui, a Shaolin practitioner, adapted into a relatively simple style, easy to learn over a comparitively short period of time, and requiring much less physical strain...

    my question is, how recognisable are Wing Chun's Shaolin beginnings? Not having studied Shaolin yet, I don't know, but will a limited background in Wing Chun give me any advantages (in terms of quick learning & understanding) over someone who's never studied a Chinese martial art before?
    "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

  • #2
    well there are a few things to consider first:

    1) is the Ng Mui story really true or not?
    2) Does it matter if it is or not?

    3) Wing Chun comes from Southern Shaolin so will not be like what you can train from the monks as they are from the Northern Songshan Temple.

    4) Any martial art trianing is good as it makes sure you are healthy as well as have some knoweledge of how the body works/moves as well as distance and timing etc.
    5) a downside to that is there are many different ways of generating power and moving - so you *may* (and from wing chun to northern shaolin *will*) have to "unlearn" one to do another.

    6) some say wing chun is from the "snake" and "crane" skills in southern shaolin - or hung gar. My own opinion - i cant see it. its based on a human being and how they move... the only "animal" reference we have is "bong sau" (wing arm) and possibly "bil jee/sau" (darting fingers). The distance for fighting is also different. of ocurse im talking about only Yip Man version here - others like Jee Shim and Hung Suen (Hung fa yi) are a bit different.

    just my htoughts
    wonder why wing chun has got so popular here recently? hehe

    dave
    simple and natural is my method,
    true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

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    • #3
      Hmm I was thinking about this the other day when learning basic chi sao & practicing rolling, then switching to the outside, and it occured to me...

      fook sao = possible relationship with preying mantis? If you think about it, the position is sort of similar, and the idea of "folding" your arm around the attack to trap the opponent is quite preying mantis in principle... whaddaya think?
      "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

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      • #4
        the chinese character "fook" means to rest on and is from actually like a dogs paw - so maybe dog style

        mantis doesnt have the centreline principle like we do... they also have a lot of round stuff. A lot of different skills have sensitivity trianing - bagua, xingyi, taijiquan, and im sure mantis and hung gar etc. have their own version... but chi sau is very different to those, so are our postures and structure.

        Also the idea isnt to trap the opponent - its to hit them
        dont get too hung up on trapping, thats not why we train. if it happens its cool, but its not why.

        dave
        simple and natural is my method,
        true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

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        • #5
          Yeah, it's okay, I know
          "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

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          • #6
            wing chun is sort of a branch of Chin na, but I can assure you that at least for me, Chin na only have a use when you fight someone that know nothing about fighting...I hope I m faulse but it is the conclusion I tired from my fighting at school and other place.
            martial way is mine, death one is yours
            call me last bodyguard of the lohan chuan, call me the one who will bring wu de to occident, call me, the one

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            • #7
              Definitely not a style of chinna. Wing chun is a very direct close range striking system (straight punches, front kicks etc.) with very specific and refined blocks (or deflections) which aim to control the opponent. try looking at wingchunkwoon.com (actually a slightly controversial lineage but there lots of good clips on the site).

              IMO Wing chun is related to Wuzuquan/Ngo Chor Kun by way of Chee Shim Weng Chun with added influence of an unknown (possibly southern shaolin inspired) loose techniques system. It was formalised by the red junk opera group and refined in Foshan.

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              • #8
                Popular myth credits the style to a combination of Snake & Crane or Fox & either Snake or Crane. Whatever Fox style is.
                Another theory I heard was that Shaolin animal styles took 10-20 years to master & they wanted a faster form to get warrior monks up to speed (5 yrs.) So the Masters created what would become Wing Chun based on human motions rather than animal.

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                • #9
                  Chin na only have a use when you fight someone that know nothing about fighting...
                  May I suggest that you've got a lot to learn about chin na?
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #10
                    doc, it is me who wrote the quote you posted but I dont remember of having said such a thing like that (I know I said it if it is writen)...chin na is what I use the more in fight (or at least in fight with people not fighting too much with there legs like in taekwondo. I take an exemple, the first time I get into a fight after a few month of training more chin na, it was against Italia's karate champion's...I though I could use chin na on them but they were too fast...but this was a long time ago, maybe I was not used to chin na enought
                    martial way is mine, death one is yours
                    call me last bodyguard of the lohan chuan, call me the one who will bring wu de to occident, call me, the one

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                    • #11
                      Better question is, why are you fighting?

                      If you're really skilled in chin na, as Shi Su Gong is, you can use it to disable an opponent quickly. And then use gong fu to finish him off.

                      This is Shi Su Gong's way of fighting. But, he's, incredibly fast with it.
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by doc
                        Better question is, why are you fighting?
                        I fight to keep my life, my health, and also to keep the money I take with me (I almost never take money with me but people who racket me dont know that)...I dont fight because I want to (exept when I fifht with other student for training of course)...a better question is not why I fight but why people with who I fight do so, and the answer is very simple: to steel money.
                        martial way is mine, death one is yours
                        call me last bodyguard of the lohan chuan, call me the one who will bring wu de to occident, call me, the one

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                        • #13
                          Again, I ask, why are you fighting?

                          To put it another way, why are you finding yourself in situations whereby you think you need to fight?
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


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                          • #14
                            im curious, and really im not trying to take away from anyone's intentions here but if a martial artist questions another martial artist, namely ask him why he would fight in the first place, what would the response be if the person in question turned around and asked "why do you train?"

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                            • #15
                              aaa, at least one person on this forum say something intelligent (talking about dogchow108)...and to answer to you doc, the answer is above, I fight because I want to protect myself and other people.
                              answer honestly, you would not fight is someone attack you or one of your friends?
                              martial way is mine, death one is yours
                              call me last bodyguard of the lohan chuan, call me the one who will bring wu de to occident, call me, the one

                              Comment

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