Americans!

[Noble]

I just got a question directed towards all you warhungry americans, that I've been wondering about for a while now. At my home back here in Norway I can safely sit and observe everything that happens around in the world through all sorts of medias. Pretty much of the newsstuff is about war. And pretty much of the warstuff is about wars where USA have big, but various roles. 100% of the wars USA takes part in is on foreign land.

Not only do I hear about the major wars that have gotten much attention in media, and how Bush is fighting terrorism and his "evil circle", and making the world a better place for everybody.

I also get to know, for example, how USA supported Saddam's regime in Iraq for a very long while with money and weapons, how they support Israel in their "war" against the "evil palestinean people", and still supporting other regimes with whatever things they need, as long as it is in the US' favor. I get reports from Iraq on daily basis with news of dead americans, that have lost their life fighting local militias, in a country that will not see stability and wellfare in many years, because of the US' lack of knowledge about how a country is being rebuilt after it has been bombed to the ground.
I hear a lot of other things too, I tell you, because as you might allready know, we Europeans have gone quite USA-critical over the past few years, but the only thing that I do not hear is the regular american's opinion.

So.. I don't watch much US' televisison - do you really get the same information as I do?
Do you share the same opinions and viewpoints as your great leader?
What I really wonder, and would like to know - do you all stand behind your governments leadership and support it's actions?


Please excuse any spellerrors in my text.

Noble

[daodejing]

A condsiderable portion of the country, roughly 1 in 3 persons, despises our "great leader" and thinks he's a nincumpoop.

Another 1 in 3 thinks bush is a cool guy whos trying to make their lives safer and freer.

The last third has no idea what the hell is going and just sort of approves of bush anyway.

This is a drastically simplified, slightly incorrect rendering of the political views of the american populace. Suffice it to say Noble, alot of people in america think George Bush is an evil dictator whose only interested in iraq so he can steal all their oil (by the way how's the new afghani oil pipeline, did we finish building that yet?). Unfortunatly there are enough people who do like him out there, and a total lack of strong democratic candidates, that we may just have him as president for 4 years. And he might actually win the election this time around.

For more bush bashing by american citizens, please refer yourself to the thread entitled "Thoughts on War."

[lester1/2jr]

Russia and France had much closer ties to him for a much longer time. Hope yuo enjoy your new Muslim governments, they are coming quite soon I hear.

[doc]

Well Noble, if it wasn't for the "warhungry americans" many years ago, more than likely you'd be speaking German now.

There would be no such thing as "French bread". Or, "French onion soup".

And, believe it or not, the French would have a much better chance of now being polite and civilized. Can you imagine?

Norway was a much desired area for bases in 1939. Even though Norway wanted to maintain its neutrality, it soon found out that was going to be difficult, as both the British and the Germans wanted access to Norway and its harbors.

The British wanted access to a few harbors, so that they could maintain transit of ore from North Sweden.

The Germans wanted harbors for sub bases, so that they could have better control of the North Atlantic.

In order to achieve their goal, the Allies decided to send an expeditionary force to Norway, to help maintain peace, and to cause a deterrent to the Germans.

In order to achieve their goal, the Germans decided to conquer the entire country. This is in fact what they did, despite help to Norway from the Allies. The Germans sent almost their entire fleet, with six Army divisions, and a large contingent of air power, to overrun eight key cities in Norway. (It was the first time in history that the combined use of air, sea and land forces were used). Despite help from the British navy and some Allied ground forces, the small army of Norway was not able to keep the German invaders out.

In fact, the Germans conquered these eight cities in one day. They conquered the rest of the country in 62 days.

Allied losses were much greater than Norwegian losses. Many gave their lives to help a people that lived in a country that few could find on a map. But, this is the way it goes.


And, talking about "treasonous" behavior, that great democratic president, FDR, no doubt pulled some punches of his own back then. The American public was tremendously isolationist back in the thirties and forties, not really caring what Hitler was doing to Europe, or to the Jews. FDR made some deals back then that helped push the US into war. And, pushing the US into the war was the only reason why the war came to an end. Britain certainly couldn't do it on their own.

Now imagine, "warhungry americans" not getting involved in other country's affairs.

Be glad we were there.

[Noble]

It had to come.

I also happen to know a lot about the invasion of Norway, and WWII as well, as it always has gotten, and still gets a lot of attention in norwegian media. And history classes. And history classes.

But I will not debate you on this, mainly because you do not answere none of my questions, but also because many of the things you speak of is true, and last because WWII took place 60 years ago, and doesn't have many things in common with todays situation.

[doc]

I understand why you have a lot of WWII discussion in your history classes. You guys don't have a lot of other history to really talk about.

Let's see. Imposition of ideology upon others. Mass acceptance of aggressive anti-social ideas. Sabotage and terrorist acts in other lands. Oppression and destruction of innocent lives. And a desire to spread a not commonly accepted way of thinking into other morally and socially satisfied countries.

Yes, WWII did take place 60 years ago. And it has many things in common with what is happening today.


As for the other questions, yes, we get the same stuff, most probably, on our television sets as you do. CNN is all over the world, they don't change it country by country. And I personally agree with how we handled this situation. I don't think that our president is a genius by any means, but I do think that he has surrounded himself with brilliant, experienced people, which is more important. And, at least, he's got some principles, some sense of honesty, and a strong sense of right and wrong.

Which is far more than what you can say for the last moron who was president.

[daodejing]

Personally, I liked the last moron better than the current moron. But that has nothing to do with their different moral indiscretions and everything to do with what they accomplished in terms of protecting the environment (or failing to do so). One moron like to get head in the oval office, the next moron likes blowing lines, drinking and driving, and executing criminals. I don't see much of a difference between their respective morals. They were both draft dodgers of differing sorts (the difference being that one's father had enough money to keep his son out of combat the legal way) and they both had drug problems. One had a bigger nooky problem, the next had a bigger drug problem.

And doc, I agree with you that this current moron has surrounded himself with some rediculously intelligent people. It's just hard to remember all their names when you feel like blaming someone for a policy change that doesnt suit your personal interests.

[daodejing]

And no, we don't get exactly the same news as you do. Some people with really good cable or satelite TV get the BBC, as doc said CNN is the same everywhere, but the major news networks can all be quite partisan. Fox news tends to be for warmongers, ABC is owned by disney and thus a bit biased, NBC is owned by general electric which has a sizeable stake in the weapons industry, and then there's the Daily Show. Do you get the Daily Show in Norway? With the possible exception of the BBC, the Daily Show is the most honest news program on television. Why do I say they are the most honest? Because they openly admit on-air that they "make **** up" for stories.

Its a really informative program, I highly recommend it.

[lester1/2jr]

Holland is like 50% muslim at this point.

[doc]

Originally posted by lester1/2jr
Holland is like 50% muslim at this point.

Do you know why, LOL?

Germany, and Sweden have the same problem. France is developing one. In fact, the birth rate among domestic Germans is down so far, that they're encouraging people to have babies.....

OH, and Dao, I like this moron. The last moron was really a moron, and he was married to even a much bigger moron.

And god, she had big ****ing hips. No wonder Monica looked so good. And have you seen their child moron in the Enquirer lately?

The Enquirer.

I just love that ****ty news mag sometimes.

Oh, and yes, the major news networks, that you don't get Noble, are all biased. They can actually show completely different viewpoints of the same thing. When I was last in China and Thailand, all I got to watch re American news was CNN. I watched the Iraq war on CNN. All I saw was Iraqi children in hospitals. When I got home, my friends told me all about this absolutely awesome war footage of the Iraq war, that they watched on Fox, which is much more conservative (long live Hannity and O'Reilly...) So, there is a major difference sometimes, between news networks here. But what we see on CNN, you see on CNN.

Just remember one thing. CNN is very liberal. Extremely so, sometimes.

[lester1/2jr]

just feel bad for him. His country and France are headed for a civil war.

[daodejing]

Well at least if France has a civil war, then some French people might actually win a military conflict. That hasn't happened in a long time.

[doc]

They might not be French. The new Muslim population in France no doubt will win that one.

[daodejing]

Good point doc, it will be impossible for any frenchman to win a fight against someone who isn't also french. Well Notre Dame would make a good mosque anyways.........

[Noble]

@ dogchow108

Read my first post once more, and try to extract from it my personal point of view, pretty much based on "all sorts of norwegian medias", where the only american newsinterupt is a tv-program called "60 seconds", which I by the way find most interesting.
What concernes the USA - puppydog-Israel thing I won't even start on, because then I'm sure I'll sit here the whole night writing.

-

Now, what about this USA - France issue?
I heard Bush changed the name of the french fries in the white house cafeteria because of the "french-" part of the name.. or was it French toast? Don't remember.
Tell me, what makes the french so stupid?