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Topic Fourteen: The whole concept of "I want to be (am) a Shaolin monk"

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  • Topic Fourteen: The whole concept of "I want to be (am) a Shaolin monk"

    From a recent post in the forum, by Sacha:

    what is so important ?, to become a shaolin monk (with the kung fu learning and the ascet life) or learning kung fu with the "same" passions than a monk but without the "monk life" engagement ?
    Sometimes I don't understand why the ego are so big
    If the "butcher" or "cooker" have also a very good kung fu and also a good meannig or "DAO DE" in chinese
    do you think lot of people want also to become "butcher" or "cooker" ?

    I don't know but I think the most interisting thing is not how is "you're looking or apparence" but how are you inside
    We don't take a bottle of water for the bottle, but for the water.

    So I think those people wan't to become a monk, most of them, is not for the budhism way but for the "image"


    We don't take a bottle of water for the bottle, but for the water.

    Brilliant. Absoluely brilliant.

    (In America, we do buy a bottle of water based upon the bottle, lol...)

    This is really an incredible issue. You have no idea how many emails I get from people, wanting to be a Shaolin monk, or, presenting themselves as being a Shaolin monk.

    I find it humorous. And, as most tragedy is comedy in one way or another, sad.

    I'm interested to see what other people think of this...
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com



  • #2
    Some 10 years ago there was an attitude among some Buddhist monks in China that those who went to Shaolin were only interested in fame & not true Dharma study. Some monks that left Shaolin to study Dharma at another temple had a hard time finding a place that would accept them once it was learned they were from Shaolin.

    Doc's right American peoples love the cool bottle that the water's in.
    Western people love gongfu titles. I don't mind paying respect and calling my teacher sifu on the mat, but if I run into him at the supermarket & introduce my wife to him it would be by first name not kowtowing "Oh sifu!" I knew 1 teacher that loved that; all ways wanted to be called sifu no matter what the circumstance. These are the kind of guys that would buy Doc's Shaolin starter kit.

    Any film or articles I've seen on foreigners visiting the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala show Tibetan people on their knees, bowing as is custom. However when foreigners visit his office His Holiness adopts Western customs, crossing the floor and shaking their hand before they can bow. The same was with a Daoist monk I once knew. He spoke very little English, never had long hair nor wore robes, usually he was in a tracksuit or on special occasions a suit & tie. When Chinese people met him they would bow & call him sifu, but with non-Chinese he preferred English either Master or simply Mr. (he was an elder gentleman no one ever called him by his first name). And to any one who tried bowing he would simply reach out and shake their hand.

    You're right, Sacha, you're probably better off finding a Cook who can teach you. Not somebody trying to make a living teaching gongfu by passing himself off as a wannabe monk.

    Comment


    • #3
      I understand what u mean too !!

      But I think this constation don't make me sad.
      Because it's very easy now for all of the people wan't to learn kung-fu with someone to know who is good or who's not

      I think when the ego of the "master" or "teacher" are too big "I do... I won... I'm..., Im..." every time you can deduce 2 things from him:
      1) It is reached Parkinson's disease and thus repeats all the time same the things
      2) It is somebody who wants to convince "himself "of some things and to persuade "you" too !!

      If you can understand my english. I wanna said a "master" (shaolin or not) he's a man don't talking about himself like this.
      He doesn't need to proove somethings to someone because it is beyond these materials questions

      I also wanna show u this poem from Lu Yu (in french and in english the traduction is by myself don't be so hard with me )

      " Les autres sont révoltés, je reste immobile.
      Saisi par les désirs, je reste immobile.
      Devant les conseils des sages, je reste immobile.
      Je ne bouge que sur ma propre voie ".

      "The others are revolted, I remain motionless.
      Seized by the desires, I remain motionless.
      In front of the councils of wise, I remain motionless.
      I move only on my own way "


      Just read

      Comment


      • #4
        Well spoken, Sacha. And I love the poem.

        Comment


        • #5
          We have a different version here in Las Vegas:

          "The others are revolted, I remain motionless on the couch.
          Seized by the desires, I remain motionless on the couch.
          In front of the goddesses of church, I remain motionless on the couch.
          Andrew Jackson remains in my wallet "

          Surprised nobody is jumping on this issue.
          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

          (more comments in my User Profile)
          russbo.com


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          • #6
            Well, everything starts with awe for the bottle, then as you learn more about the bottle, you learn that there is also water in it. Later you find out that it's the water which is interesting.
            The whole thing is a slow process which has to start somewhere.
            If it really is so, that many western people want to become monks, i think it is indicates at least two things.
            The soceity in which they live doesn't provide them with what they need. That being individual development or the acknowledgement among people.
            It also indicates that we humans are not all willing to let these needs be overruled by the development of this world. That being all the technology and the still diminishing communication among ourselves as humans and our isolation from nature.
            Or maybe we've always been like this, but only now that the world has become so much smaller, we can see this alternative.


            It is sad that society doesn't provide what's needed, but it's very good that people are trying to find a solution. Some say it's not the right solution... well, no one should proclaim that they know which solution is the "right" one, because in the end no one knows.
            All I know is that talking to someone who's interested is a good thing, but not a solution.

            Comment


            • #7
              powerful, i fully agree with the idea. i studied under someone who lied about having a shaolin temple lineage. interesting what was said about learning from a cook or something....its actually got a lot to it- if someone actually has a job for income, and teaches on the side either for free or just enough to make it worth his while, then chances are you will probably get a better deal. my teacher has an administrative positin at a massage school, and two days a week he teaches us. he has mentioned before that he would much rather our class stay small, but i dunno i guess i'll see when summer comes who's gonna show up. we've been out in the snow and cold for the past few months so thats kept us kinda tight.
              Last edited by dogchow108; 02-01-2004, 01:48 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                i think it's not always inexcusable for your teacher to demand to be called "sifu". for instance, my teacher studied in china under Ho Lap Tin, and he didn't earn the chance to talk with him much at all until months (or maybe years, i'm not sure) of teaching. he came from a very rough neighborhood and kung fu was his means of protecting himself, and, much more importantly, his way out. later on he came to america.

                anyway my point is that he's chinese, learned gongfu in china and takes the chinese gongfu traditions very seriously. i'm sure that some western (and eastern, for that matter) teachers prefer 'sifu' or 'sensei' out of vanity, but for some teachers, this is just the way that gongfu it taught, because that's how they learned it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  An email, from a friend in Europe, who has an interesting perspective on this "wanna be a monk" thing:

                  "Oh yeah!

                  I saw a highly instructional movie about American family life, the American hygiene standards and the lovingly contact between the family members. I saw the “Osbournes”…LOL

                  Oh my ****ing damn god! If that’s the way how you ****ing live together in ****ing America than I’m not surprised about the youngsters wanting to leave their ****ing family to become a ****ing monk. Have you ever seen them? The parents with their 2 children and some other persons who don’t belong to that household, but who seem to walk there in and out like in a ****ing train station, are living in a ****ing 6 million $ villa, with 6 dogs and 2 ****ing cats. The ****ing dogs are ****ting and puking anywhere on the ****ing antique carpets, people are pissing into the garden at the front or backside of the ****ing house (just imagine the ****ing nice smell it makes when you sit outside on the terrace and the ****ing sun is shining mercilessly on it!). And last but not least their ****ing highly educated phraseology. You’ve probably noticed the ****ing good progresses I’ve made yesterday."




                  What's wrong with pissing in the ****ing garden?
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    lol

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ozzy is pretty educational as an example of why not to do drugs. what I don't get is you can understand what he says when he sings but not otherwise. maybe he should just start singing all the time. I saw him in concert one time and ironically at the end he said "whateva you do don't drink and get behind that ****in' wheel"
                      "Hasta la vista gray davis you're being totally recalled" - The Governor of California

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think some of the kids that want to become monks are looking for some direction and structure in life. That is a key element that is missing today. It all about I, I, I, me, me, me. Maybe the thought or fanatsy of accomplishing something that not many others have done will provide that missing element. But then they miss the point that it is not about the goal but about the journey. They just want to have it and not really work for it. We give out awards for showing up. Everyone gets a prize. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Also, everything has to be so perfectly equal now a days to be considered fair. We can't post the ranking of kids in high school. Someone may be offended. My son's school is going to have NINE valedictorians this year - NINE. We don't want to offend anyone by saying one person is the best - well you know those other eight tried so hard too. I could ramble on about this but I'll let someone else jump in. Things can be fair but not exactly the same.
                        Nothing is more frightening than ignorance in action - Goethe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I always was of the opinion that it is the parent’s task to provide structure and direction to their kid’s life. Shouldn’t it be one of their main goals to teach their children right and show them the way? But then again, this needs time and patience, what many parents nowadays are no more able or willing to bring up. It’s more comfortable to let someone else taking on it, as they have more time for their selfish lifestyle then. So in my opinion, that’s what many children seem to miss, someone who is intensively taking care of them. Just look at the posts of the kids who want to become monks, some of them asked the question: “Can I have a master for my own? One who doesn’t have 20 or 30 students, but just 3 or 4?” This sounds more like a cry for attention to me. Could be I’m wrong.
                          Also the idea of everything being equal or fair is a dangerous illusion in my mind. Why don’t the children want to work or bring up any effort for anything they are doing? Just because at the end, it all will be fair and equal! What’s wrong by showing someone that he has failed or did something wrong? Nothing! When we don’t teach our children how to handle a flop, then they will never be able to enjoy their success. If one doesn’t have a special ability to do something, then the only way to master it anyway, is hard work. But when the parents always remove the stones out of their children’s way, without letting them bring up any effort for the accomplishment of what they intend to do, then for god’s sake, they will never learn how to master their life and will always try to run away. Success always comes along with effort, sometimes even hard work, endurance, and also a little bit of pain. And a failure isn’t the end of the world, but a sign that shows that one will have to work more or harder, and that’s a lesson the kids need to learn. When we are talking about fairness then we have to show the one’s success, as well as the other’s failure. Again I’m saying we have to teach them, show them the way and give them some structure, but they’ll have to walk alone uphill and downhill! Again, I could be wrong.
                          Don’t take life too serious, as you won’t get out of it alive anyway.

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                          • #14
                            great post Cheye

                            dave
                            simple and natural is my method,
                            true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

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                            • #15
                              i agree with all of this about being too nice to the kids, but i'm still not sure how that ties in with the whole shaolin monk thing. i've never been to shaolin, but from what i hear about it, a kid going there because he wants an easy trophy or something is in for a rude awakening.

                              - zach

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