alright first of all, don't worry, this isn't another "Is Kung Fu Good For Fighting" question, although i suppose it's related. that being said:
the shaolin temple was a monastery. if you go by the legend, the 18 hands of lohan were brought to the temple by Da Mo to aid the monks in physical health and spiritual development, or simplistically to "keep them awake while they meditated". subsequently, these 18 hands evolved through many channels into the deadly martial arts we know today. again, of course, this is only the legend.
from what i gather, various chinese fighting styles were already in existance in both northern and southern china when the real Da Mo came to the real original shaolin temple. it seems like this is treated as a trivial difference, but for me in carries implications on the entire question of the actual effectiveness of martial arts in combat, and in fact, whether or not kung fu (which wasn't called either "kung fu" or "martial art" at the time, from what i can tell) was ever even intended for combat application.
what i mean is this. if what we know as shaolin kung fu today originated in shaolin, and there were no other martial arts to speak of, then it was created in a vacuum and, it seems, had nothing to do with fighting. for instance, yoga has nothing to do with fighting, and it comes from india, which incidentally is where Da Mo was supposed to have come from. why, then, take these movements meant for spiritual cultivation and use them to invent the world's first organized system for fighting (or at least training to fight)? i mean who got that idea? a bunch of peaceful monks?
but again, this is the legend. if there were other styles or beginnings of styles of martial arts throughout china already, it seems like it's extremely important to find out exactly what these styles were and where they were from. forgive me if someone has already done this. i'm saying this because, if they were formed in the rough-and-tumble common-folk villages, the application would almost certainly have been actual fighting. but if they were developed in other monasteries or as spiritual exercises, the same question arises as to What Sick Bastard turned them into violent patterns for fighting.
basically, here's my question: what evidence is there to show that the original, bona fide Shaolin monks ever had any intention of using this stuff to fight?
i'm asking because, it seems to me, moving to emulate 5 animals, all of them bearing religious significance to begin with, in prearranged sets that are practiced alone against invisible opponents, seems like such a deeply spiritual thing with so many religious implications, that if i were, say, a monk, i don't think it would ever occur to me to do it against a real live human being.
i could go on about this for a while but i would like to give you all a chance to respond, and i hope you do. just for the record this is in no way an attack. i'm currently taking Hung Gar classes, and i am a firm believer that training in traditional martial arts (the legitimate ones), including Shaolin gungfu, can give you tools that would be valuable in a real fight, mostly dependant on the individual's own hard work. however i see this as a relatively inconsequential benefit of the martial arts.
that's it. i would greatly appreciate any response or references to further reading on this.
- zach
p.s. i do, however, use kung fu to cure cancer and see through walls into ladies' locker rooms.
p.p.s. jesus christ i'm long-winded when i'm bored.
the shaolin temple was a monastery. if you go by the legend, the 18 hands of lohan were brought to the temple by Da Mo to aid the monks in physical health and spiritual development, or simplistically to "keep them awake while they meditated". subsequently, these 18 hands evolved through many channels into the deadly martial arts we know today. again, of course, this is only the legend.
from what i gather, various chinese fighting styles were already in existance in both northern and southern china when the real Da Mo came to the real original shaolin temple. it seems like this is treated as a trivial difference, but for me in carries implications on the entire question of the actual effectiveness of martial arts in combat, and in fact, whether or not kung fu (which wasn't called either "kung fu" or "martial art" at the time, from what i can tell) was ever even intended for combat application.
what i mean is this. if what we know as shaolin kung fu today originated in shaolin, and there were no other martial arts to speak of, then it was created in a vacuum and, it seems, had nothing to do with fighting. for instance, yoga has nothing to do with fighting, and it comes from india, which incidentally is where Da Mo was supposed to have come from. why, then, take these movements meant for spiritual cultivation and use them to invent the world's first organized system for fighting (or at least training to fight)? i mean who got that idea? a bunch of peaceful monks?
but again, this is the legend. if there were other styles or beginnings of styles of martial arts throughout china already, it seems like it's extremely important to find out exactly what these styles were and where they were from. forgive me if someone has already done this. i'm saying this because, if they were formed in the rough-and-tumble common-folk villages, the application would almost certainly have been actual fighting. but if they were developed in other monasteries or as spiritual exercises, the same question arises as to What Sick Bastard turned them into violent patterns for fighting.
basically, here's my question: what evidence is there to show that the original, bona fide Shaolin monks ever had any intention of using this stuff to fight?
i'm asking because, it seems to me, moving to emulate 5 animals, all of them bearing religious significance to begin with, in prearranged sets that are practiced alone against invisible opponents, seems like such a deeply spiritual thing with so many religious implications, that if i were, say, a monk, i don't think it would ever occur to me to do it against a real live human being.
i could go on about this for a while but i would like to give you all a chance to respond, and i hope you do. just for the record this is in no way an attack. i'm currently taking Hung Gar classes, and i am a firm believer that training in traditional martial arts (the legitimate ones), including Shaolin gungfu, can give you tools that would be valuable in a real fight, mostly dependant on the individual's own hard work. however i see this as a relatively inconsequential benefit of the martial arts.
that's it. i would greatly appreciate any response or references to further reading on this.
- zach
p.s. i do, however, use kung fu to cure cancer and see through walls into ladies' locker rooms.
p.p.s. jesus christ i'm long-winded when i'm bored.
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