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  • gong fu vs. wushu

    which is better to learn for self-defense traditional gong fu or wushu. i read the faq but it doesn't really say one is better than the other it just says the stances are higher/lower and wushu is largely for show at competitions. besides which is better for self-defense, what are the advantages/disadvantages to both. anyone that knows help me out here. oh and doc do they teach traditional gong fu at shi de cheng's to anyone that is interested?
    "Hasta la vista gray davis you're being totally recalled" - The Governor of California

  • #2
    Traditional and contemporary are taught both at Decheng's school in China, and here in Las Vegas. Traditional is more combat oriented.

    Learning the applications, well, that's another thing.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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    • #3
      the underlying idea of most people that make the distinction between "true kung fu" and wushu is that wushu is just for show and is not combat-effective. but if any kind of martial art involves strength training, flexibility, the regular practice of punches and kicks and so on, whether or not it's for show, it will provide you with tools that might help you in a hand-to-hand situation. it's not so much what style you train in as it is the quality of your teacher and the amount of blood and sweat you put into it.

      - zach

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      • #4
        traditional gong fu, is fighting, contemp. wushu, is taolu (forms) based.. you'd be hard pressed finding a wushu school that teaches drills, spars, and goes through apps.
        practice wu de

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        • #5
          well most traditional gongfu was (and still is) taught as forms, with body conditioning (iron palm, etc.) on the side. the practices of directly teaching applications (two-man forms aside) and sparring for training are mostly 20th century inventions.

          - zach, forecasting a ****storm

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          • #6
            wushu school that teaches drills, spars, and goes through apps.
            You probably won't find a school in Dengfeng that teaches apps. That's one thing that I noticed. I teach it here in Las Vegas, but, in China, the general feeling is, do a form 10000 times, and you'll eventually figure out how to use it.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #7
              IMHO, that might be exactly opposite..
              since a form is an application cataloug of sorts....
              practice wu de

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              • #8
                A form is an application catalog. But, the Chinese schools generally don't teach applications. They figure that the student will "figure them out" after doing the form god knows how many times.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


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                • #9
                  aren't the official applications written out on books that are kept from the eyes of all but the highest ranking monks or something? was it this site i read that?

                  - zach

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                  • #10
                    A form is an application catalog. But, the Chinese schools generally don't teach applications. They figure that the student will "figure them out" after doing the form god knows how many times.
                    No doubt...

                    I also love the multi-levelness of a lot of the shaolin forms...

                    1st level techs, 2nd level techs, etc..

                    and they all look the same...lol.
                    practice wu de

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                    • #11
                      what it comes down to is that there is gongfu and wushu, and almost everyone who calls a style "wushu" is doing it to make it look bad in comparison to their own godlike style. i have great respect for schools that refer to certain forms or sequences they teach as "wushu", because it suggests that they're not concerned with the typical gongfu "my school kicks more ass than yours" race.

                      - zach

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                      • #12
                        Training in straight up wushu or traditional without the applications, has nothing to do with making you a better fighter. It is just a fitness exercise.
                        The application in traditional shaolin needs to be taught. You could do the form a miilion times without ever figuring out the apps. Unfortunately schools in denfeng do not teach apps because they do not know them. Sadly that is also the case with some of the "monks". They just care about performance aspects. Being seen, making it into a movie and getting out of there horrible poverty they all are living in.

                        You need pad and bag work as well as sparring.
                        You need to practice apps on a resisting partner. Otherwise you could do all the wushu flips and low stance training you want. It will not make you a better fighter on any level.
                        I am not knocking wushu. I actually enjoy training it, but don't ever think you could fight because of it or someone will hand you your ass one day.

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                        • #13
                          Sadly that is also the case with some of the "monks". They just care about performance aspects. Being seen, making it into a movie and getting out of there horrible poverty they all are living in.
                          True, in my opinion. Far more common with the younger monks than those of the De and Su generations.
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


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                          • #14
                            It will not make you a better fighter on any level.
                            I don't agree 100%

                            It's not the best way to become a fighter per say... but don't you think advancing your basic athletisism helps? Granted this is how all too many students get disillusioned about being some great fighter. I agree that it isn't worth it's weight in salt in becoming a fighter, I'm just saying, working out, getting good cardio and endurance is a big part of it.
                            practice wu de

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                            • #15
                              I know there are huge increases in overall fitness level but that does not teach you distance and timing. It doesn't teach how to truly transmit your power into something. Are you telling me swimmers are better fighters then your average person because they are in good shape? True traditional style is based off of the positioning of your skeletal structure so you could deflect incoming blows. Not who can kick the hardest. You should be able to dispose of someone without using strenghth or conditioning. Just reflexes and timing. Neither of which are developed from forms. I personally love doing forms but never confuse the two. They are very different animals.

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