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  • the term "martial art"

    alright, defining the word "martial" as "of or pertaining to the military", and "art" as "art", where did the term "martial art" come from? gongfu, karate and such have just about nothing to do with the military; at least, they have much less to do with the military than guns and tanks. guns and tanks take skill to use, but those skills are never referred to as "martial arts". you could argue that, when the phrase was invented, gongfu really was a military skill. but it was used more by monks than by the military, which was primarily concerned with things like horseback riding, coordinating troop movements and armor technology. and besides, as i'm sure we're all aware, the word "gongfu" means something like "skill achieved through effort", and doesn't even have any specific combat connotations, much less military. so what gives?

    from what i gather, the term was a political invention of the japanese. about the time there were changing all their style names from "-jutsu" to "-do" (to reflect a more spiritual, artistic even, emphasis), and they were changing "karate" meaning "chinese hand" to "karate" meaning "empty hand", they came up with the phrase "martial art", to please the very nationalistic and military-oriented population at the time (i think this was around the 20's and 30's). in other words, it was propaganda.

    before WW2, here in america we would generally categorize all gongfu as simply "chinese boxing", and we had an acquaintance with judo. but after WW2, we had servicemen coming back from japan with a knowledge of japanese styles, and with it they brought the terminology of "martial art".

    anyway, the only reason this matters is because of the pages and pages of philosophical discourse some people write about the meaning of the phrase "martial art" and its ancient origins. if this is true, and it seems to be the only plausible explanation i've heard of the term yet, then all of this discourse is just a waste of time, since the term is not ancient at all, and the true meaning is political.

    - zach

  • #2
    think of martial as more of combat than military and it will make beteer sense.
    Nothing is more frightening than ignorance in action - Goethe

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    • #3
      but that's not what it means, and that's my point. if someone were looking for an accurate description, they'd call it a "combat art" or a "defense art". but, i believe, it was deliberately called "martial art" instead, to mislead people.

      - zach

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      • #4
        It probably comes from "wu shu".
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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        • #5
          isn't that new?

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          • #6
            wu means martial. shu means art. If you talk to people in Shaolin, they refer to the training as wu shu. Lately, with the emergence of competitive martial arts in China, they still call it wu shu. We attach the connotation of wu shu, to this new contemporary stuff.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #7
              i've read some things that suggest that, traditionally, gongfu was not called gongfu or wushu, but was simply referred to by the specific styles (forms) by "quan" or a similar word. they started calling it "wushu" in the 20th century to reflect the national martial art of china. but maybe i've just been reading the wrong sources -

              - zach

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              • #8
                Gung Fu

                "alright, defining the word "martial" as "of or pertaining to the military", and "art" as "art", where did the term "martial art" come from? gongfu, karate and such have just about nothing to do with the military; at least, they have much less to do with the military than guns and tanks. guns and tanks take skill to use, but those skills are never referred to as "martial arts". you could argue that, when the phrase was invented, gongfu really was a military skill. but it was used more by monks than by the military, which was primarily concerned with things like horseback riding, coordinating troop movements and armor technology. and besides, as i'm sure we're all aware, the word "gongfu" means something like "skill achieved through effort", and doesn't even have any specific combat connotations, much less military. so what gives?"

                martial art, the english term came from Geoffrey Chaucer, who reffered to the 'tourney marcial' of medieval times. the word derives its origins from the latin Mars, or god of war

                what is stated above is all incorrect, the martial arts espcially the asian martial arts have always played a big role in warfare, and the military. Some of the best styles of kung fu were created by Generals and military leaders who either invented them while still serving in the military or after having retired. A perfect example of this is of course Yue Fei the creator of eagle claw kung fu, and Xing-Yi quan. Infact it was the massive amounts of knowledge and experience that was taught to the monks of shaolin(over its vast history) that made there martial arts knowledge so great.

                furthermore, Gung fu was taught to solidiers of the chinese military. Infact, alot of the gung fu taught to the chinese soliders was some of the most direct and effective..and most powerful. the hung ga legend wong fei hung also taught the chinese navy kung fu so they could fight off pirates.

                there are countless examples of the militarys influence on chinese gung fu, and there is also the fact that shui chiao derives its origins from the raiding mongol tribes that swept throughout asia

                anyhow, i could go on..but im not gonna..hope this helps

                amitabha
                "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                • #9
                  what is stated above is all incorrect, the martial arts espcially the asian martial arts have always played a big role in warfare
                  Remember, the true origins of martial arts did not originate with Damo. They probably originated with the various generals and other soldiers, who, sick of war, took refuge in these temples to find peace, only to discover that there skills were needed to protect the temples.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #10
                    Vince, I agree entirely. I was about to write what was in your post. Zachsan, the term martial does not mean pertaining to war in the modern sense, it means pertaining to Mars (Aries in greek) the roman god of warfare and combat of all sorts. Incidentally, certain martial arts have ALOT to do with large scale battlefield tactics. The same theory which allows you to defeat an opponent with wing chun gongfu would allow a smart commander to implement the same tactics on a field of battle with a thousand men. Blocking and striking simultaneously, circling to flank the opponent and strike him beneath his guard are all techniques which can be implemented when one is fighting a lone unarmed opponent, or whether one has a force of five hundred men. To understand warfare is to understand that controlling yourself can be done in the same way one controls a thousand men.
                    Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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                    • #11
                      well

                      beat ya to the punch, sounds like something id do

                      heheheheh

                      amitabha
                      "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                      • #12
                        you're all right. i did a little more reading on it, and it turns out i was right that the term "martial art" was translated from the japanese in the 20's, but the japanese term that was translated did come from the chinese "wushu".

                        oh well. time to think of something else to piss people off.

                        - zach

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