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interesting fallout from Iraq invasion

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  • interesting fallout from Iraq invasion

    The U.S. in Iraq
    NEW YORK Of the myriad reasons that President George W. Bush gave for invading Iraq, the one that Arabs believed the least was that U.S. troops would install democracy in the Middle East. But last week, as I followed the news coming out of Iraq, I couldn't help wonder if Bush really did do it all for democracy. Do Arabs owe Bush thanks rather than skepticism?.
    Let's start with freedom of expression - a cornerstone of democracy. On March 28, in a move perfected by Arab despots - the very same ones whom Bush wants to teach about democracy - L. Paul Bremer 3rd, the U.S. administrator of Iraq, shut down a newspaper run by the radical Shiite Muslim cleric, Moktada al-Sadr. His militias rose up in protest, shattering the long-held belief that Iraq's Shiites would not turn against the Americans..
    Bremer's move puzzled the Arabs. Where's the democracy in shutting down a newspaper? But here's the rub - it taught the Iraqis the importance of fighting for their freedom of expression. It is a lesson that is not lost on my fellow Arabs, I'm sure. So thanks are due there to the administration..
    Minority rights and sectarian strife are stubborn problems in the Arab world. Nowhere were these fissures more fragile than in Iraq. Since Bush declared major combat over last May, car and suicide bombs killed hundreds of Shiites and Kurds. Many worried that Sunni militants were bent on igniting a civil war..
    But on April 11, tens of thousands of Shiite pilgrims headed home from the holy city of Karbala after a religious festival ended without incident. Just last month, three suicide bombers struck major Shiite Muslim shrines in Karbala and Baghdad on the final day of the major religious festival of Ashoura, killing at least 125 and injuring hundreds. What changed? Falluja..
    Falluja is the latest entry in the blood-soaked lexicon of relations between Muslim Sunnis and Shiites. But unlike Karbala, where Sunnis killed Prophet Muhammad's grandson Hussein in a 7th century battle, Falluja will be remembered for bringing the two sects of Islam together in Iraq..
    And once again, thanks are due to the United States. More precisely, thanks to the U.S. military's punishing siege and bombardment of Falluja. U.S. marines attacked the town, a bastion of Sunni insurgency, in response to the murder and mutilation of four American private security contractors ambushed there. As word spread of the death and hunger in Falluja, Shiites began donating blood, food and militia fighters..
    Surely this lesson in sectarian unity has not been lost on my fellow Arabs. Neither will the casualty figures. More than 600 Iraqis, mostly civilians, have died in Falluja since April 9..
    Many in the Arab world wondered why Iraqis did not put up more of a fight last year when their country was invaded. But why should Saddam Hussein's terrorized conscripts have fought for him? It is a different story now. Iraqis are fighting for themselves, not for a bloodthirsty dictator. And Iraqis are no longer killing each other as they were earlier this year. Again, thanks are due to Bush..
    Now thanks to the mistakes, blunders and heavy-handed tactics of the U.S. military, Iraqis know they can put up a fight. My fellow Arabs, living under dictators of their own, must be wondering about their ability to put up a fight too. How ironic that it has taken the sight of Iraqis fighting the Americans to make them wonder..
    The mess in Iraq has alienated even those Arabs who believed Bush's democracy scenario. Ali, a Saudi who once criticized my condemnation of the U.S. invasion, sent me an e-mail last week. "I was such a fool for thinking that the Americans are coming to free us," he wrote. And so I truly thank Bush for losing Arabs and Muslims like Ali and for helping them to agree with me..
    Mona Eltahawy is a columnist for Asharq al-Awsat, an Arab-language daily based in London.
    "I'm like Tupac: Who can stop me?"

  • #2
    This woman was on dennis praeger yesterday. She is one of those anti american people who lives in America! What was most interesting was that she claims that the abu graib uproar has started one of the biggest (in fact only) discussions of human rights in the arab world. Don't get your hopes up, but if they decide they want to hold their own leaders similarly accountable, I can't help but think something significant could arise out of that. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the condemnation of the beheading in iraq could be a direct result of those dialogues.
    "I'm like Tupac: Who can stop me?"

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    • #3
      The arab world is discussing human rights?

      What about Berg's rights? Poor bastard was just there helping to build Iraqi infrastructure.

      And the media, Europe, and the arab world is still bothered by images of some Iraqi terrorist with a dog leash on his neck...
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

      (more comments in my User Profile)
      russbo.com


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      • #4
        I agree completely. But if abu graib can be used in some bizarre way for arabs to eventually start criticizing their own leaders, then maybe it's good. I mean, I'll put our human rights record up against their's any day. I'd be happy to dig up every roten thing anyone in our government has ever done if they'll do the same
        "I'm like Tupac: Who can stop me?"

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        • #5


          if you ever have the time, check out this board. I have a friend who debates people there all the time. some mind boggling stuff. Not the least of which is the pre-iraq war stuff about saddam like this
          "I'm like Tupac: Who can stop me?"

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          • #6
            Sadly, Berg was probably just a regular guy caught up in the middle of all this madness, but his execution is a product of revenge. Revenge from all the Iraq deaths and tortures during the past year. I'm not trying to justify his execution, but you must remember that the Iraqis have felt this pain in their own families during the brutal "Shock and Awe" bombings, killing/mutilating 9,000+ people, in a relatively short amount of time. Plus, many soldiers have had to do 'night raids' on civilian houses, and several times, killing the members of the house, only later to find out they had no ties to terrorism. "Whoops, sorry kids we killed your father, that's life". What are their kids going to do when they get older? Take a guess.

            Doc: "And the media, Europe, and the arab world is still bothered by images of some Iraqi terrorist with a dog leash on his neck..."

            Why are you always so quick to calling the prisoners "terrorists"? The same situation is going on in Guantanamo Bay; many civilian arabs are being labeled terrorists, like some sort of 'McCarthyism' witch hunt. These people aren't even getting proper trials, they're instantly being called guilty and sent to a prison to rot. Yes, islamic militants commit crimes, but when our own department of defense wants to commit crimes as well, it doesn't make things better. Two wrongs don't make a right.
            a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

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            • #7
              oh meattosser, stop trying to pick a fight...

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              • #8
                shock and awe didn't kill 9,000 people. When The US occupied Germany after we destoryed the nazi regime guess how many acts of terrorism there were against us? zero. The muslim terorists who attacked the Coalition had no problems hiding in crowds as was often reported, suicide bombing other muslims, hacking to death clerics they didn't like, blowing up mosques and generally causing chaos. Without that element would there have been half as many deaths? mcarthyism? that's utterly insane. What island do you live on that you think a terrorist is not a threat to you? mcarthyism. man, you are not a martial artist.
                "I'm like Tupac: Who can stop me?"

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                • #9
                  alright all of that was making joyful sense to me up until "man you are not a martial artist."

                  huh?

                  - zach

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                  • #10
                    I kicked him out of MA
                    "I'm like Tupac: Who can stop me?"

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                    • #11
                      i just got the funniest picture of doc talking about politics with his doctor friends on his coffee break, starting to get frustrated, and eventually just crying and yelling "NONE OF YOU ARE DOCTORS!!!", storming out of the room... hahaha....

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                      • #12
                        I hope your martial arts are better then your sense of humor!

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                        • #13
                          yeah i don't know why but i couldn't stop laughing at the time.

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                          • #14
                            I'm just joking. I just assumed that we had that kind of repor. lo

                            Rock on!

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                            • #15
                              Hmmm....Berg's rights? Let's see, he wasn't in the military, he's not Iraqi, both US and Iraqi officials advised him to leave. Now, I was just sickened as anyone else at this news. But this is war, a war that is turning dirtier every day. All these war hawks that were calling for some rag-headed Iraqi blood to be spilled over a year ago are now getting their panties in a bunch over some hapless kid who was wandering around Iraq. 'Oh the inhumanity!!!'

                              (Okay, now I'll cower to dodge Mr. Bunker's, erm, I mean Doc's heavy handed response)

                              But...I do hope this prison business does offer a little bit of hope. The thing is, the US military may not be humane or nice or anything like that, but after all this scandal is over with, it will be in the public, a lot of our people will get fired ( or courtmartialed or put in prison), etc. Compare this to the former regeime where even more horrendous things went on in the prison, but was largely kept secret. It's a small step, but a step in the right direction.
                              -Jesse Pasleytm
                              "How do I know? Because my sensei told me!"

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