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Tong Bei Quan Applications??

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  • Tong Bei Quan Applications??

    Anyone know where I might find descriptions or pictures, or videos, or anything like that to describe and show some applications of tongbeiquan? I know this is not a good way to learn, but I just thought it might help to get ideas, in finding my own applications. Thanks.

  • #2
    I can show them to you, but I have no videos of it. Actually, I have not videotaped anything for the site that demonstrates applications.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #3
      Yes, I noticed.

      Perhaps it would'nt be a bad idea, in order to help people perform better, and to inspire, to find new angles and ideas in forms etc, etc.... Atleast for me it feels alot better to have applications in mind when I do the form, to emphazise power and speed, rather than just "do the moves".
      Certainly, as said before, the applications will come with repetition of the form, but having seen some might help on the way.

      A question:
      Are the applications "set" allready for a given form, or is it up to the practitioner to find his own applications to any given move, and in that develop his own way of doing the form?

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      • #4
        Everyone finds their own applications to the movements; some are easy to find, others take experience and time. I'm sometimes finding new applications in some of these forms, occasionally by playing with them, occasionally completely by accident. Which, as I've said before, is a problem when people alter the traditional forms. Indirectly, they're throwing away some application possibilities.

        And, I guess, maybe creating new ones??? Hmmm.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


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        • #5
          You can find applications through doing the forms again and again. That's true. You may stumble across one someday and know the application. But mostly the applications are set in the form. Otherwise, how were the forms created? Just move around like a monkey and then say ok find an application for what I did? No. The applications are set in there. Some are easy to find. Some take experience to find. Some just come by accident. And some are hidden and can't be found, only taught. Those applications are set in the form already. And a lot of times if something is hidden, the movement is just down backward or turned over or something. Which makes it difficult to understand. Because you'd be looking for an application of that movement. When that's not even it. So most applications can be found through practice but others, you need a teacher to show you.

          A mi tuo Fo
          -Xing Jian

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          • #6
            The applications are set in there.
            Well, yes and no...

            Look into the way things move, moreso than what the move is. Don't be too literal when trying to pull aps out of a form, it is generally in the concepts of said moves where you can build a database of apps.
            practice wu de

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            • #7
              Of course different people can get other applications out of it. But there is a set applications to the movement. Other applications can be used if you wish. But if there is no thought of application, you won't have a useful form. They don't just do random moves and say, ok now find an application for whatever it was I just did. There was thought put into the forms by masters. Because different people find different applications, doesn't mean there wasn't a set application. Just means it can be taken different ways. It's open to interpretations. But the form was still made with an idea of a certain application. That's what Xing Jian means. I agree.

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              • #8
                Neat...that was kinda the answer I saw looking for

                To me also, the forms are built on the basis of applications, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those apps are the _only_ apps, but as you say, different people find different apps. But at the same time I believe the masters have so many apps thought up for a form that whatever app you may find, surely it´s already covered by the masters..
                That's what I think, but then who knows?...Are there ever any real monks on this forum?

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                • #9
                  I think Doc talked about that before. Saying most of the real monks don't speak enough English to post here or even just to get around this site. But they are learning. Maybe one day they will start to show up. That would be nice for people with more questions. Also they can defend themselves when people start to talk about them this and that...

                  A mi tuo Fo
                  -Xing Jian

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                  • #10
                    They won't bother to "defend" themselves on this forum or any other. It's not their nature.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


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                    • #11
                      thats funny..from what i hear its shi yan mings nature

                      amitabha
                      "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                      • #12
                        What are you talking about it's not their nature? I know if someone says they are stupid, they won't say hey I'm not stupid, you're stupid... But when people have things they think about their martial arts, the monks could explain it so everyone understands. Why would it not be their nature to do that? Of course they would. It's helping people understand Gong Fu, Chan Buddhism, etc.. It's not their nature to do that? I think it is. It's not arguing because no one can argue against a Shao Lin monk. I think they know what's what. It is their nature to explain when an explanation is saught.

                        A mi tuo Fo
                        -Xing Jian

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                        • #13
                          It's not their nature to lower themselves into a mud slinging fight. If people want an explanation of things, they'd be more than happy to sit down and discuss issues. But if you make negative allegations about them, from what I've seen, they just don't bother refuting it. It's something that they just walk away from.

                          Not a bad way to handle things like that.
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


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                          • #14
                            This I can feel, Doc...

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                            • #15
                              it's my opinion that, when you're learning a form, you're learning concepts, and when you're learning specific applications of the form, you're learning an example of how those concepts work in action, which then lets you get more out of the practice of the form.

                              what i don't believe is that you need to learn applications, and file them away in the back of your head, to copy at some later time when you're in a dangerous situation. i think that the understanding of your own body is the one thing that will help you out the most in such a situation, and you're gonna have to make up the applications as you go anyway.

                              as far as the monks go, one thing that seems like a common denominator on this forum is a dogmatic reverence for a shaolin monk's martial skill. we may argue about their marital status all we like, or about yongxin's methods in leading the temple, but when it comes to gongfu, if a monk says that up is down, i think many of us on the forum will be inclined to believe him.

                              what i mean is that you shouldn't just accept a monk's word as law when it comes to gongfu. but by the same coin, this also means that the monks don't have much of a reason to argue with anyone. i get the impression that the way the monks themselves see gongfu is entirely different from the way most western MA practitioners see it, and what we see as the all-important heart of gongfu, they might find inconsequential (for example, arguments over applications).

                              - zach

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