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    Dear Doc,
    I am sorry, this message will be a little blunt, because I just had like two pages typed and I lost it all beacuse my computer crashed and I really don't fell like typing it again so I apologize ahead of time if thsi message seems rude.

    I really want to learn shaolin Kung fu. I have some past experiance with Martial arts, and Chinese philopsophy. Here it is,
    -Karate, Tang soo Do, Tai chi (most recent)
    -Meditation (I learned this at a buddhist temple near my house, I am buddhist, and I was before I started shaolin or Tai chi)

    I am upset that the list is short, but I am willing to sacrifice alot to learn shaolin. My schedule is incredibly erratic, and I cannot attend any local schools, I don't even know if any are the real thing. So I have attempted to learn from books. These are:

    -The art of shaolin kung fu, Wong Kiew Kit
    -Leung Ting's:
    -The 108 movements of the shaolin wooden men hall
    -Five pattern hung kuen
    -Shaolin ten animal form
    -The drunken monkey form
    -The drunkard's kung fu
    -Yang Jwing Ming's:
    -Shaolin long Fist Kung Fu
    -Shaolin Chin Na
    -Shaolin Gong-Fu A Course in Traditional Forms (1-5)
    -72 Consummate Arts Secrets of the Shaolin Temple

    I want to be able to fight reasonably well, but that is not the most important, thing, I am also interested in the health, and spiritual side, but I am not even really sure of the ultimate reason for my desire to learn shaolin. I would like to be able to honestly tell myself that I am learning real shaolin. My questions are:

    -Can I acheive these goals to some extent based on my experiance, and these books?
    -How badly has wushu infiltrated these books?
    -Can you tell me what you think of the authors, or the books themselves?
    -Am I wasting my time?
    -I beleive that you said before that there is wushu in the course in traditional forms, it does not strike me however as the flipping, and crazy wushu stuff that I see, can it be useful, or is it a waste. I noticed you sell it so I thought maybe it can't be so bad.
    -I have also read on this site that someone said with enough practice, even the wushu could be made useful Is this true?
    -Would the wushu become useful if it is done 10000 times. I am willing to be patient for real skill.

    I apologize again for the blunt nature of my letter, and any reply would be appreciated. I understand that you are busy.
    Thanks, shaolin_animal

  • #2
    Sorry about the computer crash, for long responses, I always use Notepad, and then copy and paste into the forum input box. Using the back button on your browser usually returns you to what you have written.

    OK, your questions, one by one:

    The only books that I like, in my opinion, are those by Yang Ming. Also, Shi De Qian has some killer books, that are truly authentic, but they are in Chinese. The Tagou book is good too. The rest, in my opinion, are not worthwhile.

    You can't learn this stuff from books. Period. Don't even fool yourself into thinking that anyone can. You're missing the "essence", and the particulars. You just can't pick it up from pictures.

    Wushu in books, depends upon the book. DeQian's and Tagou's stuff tend to be largely traditional. The rest, some of them have a strong Japanese influence, and god knows what else.

    You're not wasting your time. Any education, whether it be from observation, teachers, or books, is worthwhile.

    As far as wushu, search the site for this topic, in this forum, the archive, and the Shaolin FAQ. It's been discussed, at length, and it would be disrespectful to you to try to summarize it all here.

    The flipping and "crazy wushu stuff" is useful, if you can do it, LOL.

    Wushu can be very useful. It's not that much different than the traditional. Again, there's a definition to the word, and a connotation. It's use has been much maligned.

    You've got lots of questions, which is good. I think that if you search the site, and these forums, you'll find much of what you're looking for. Use the Site Map to try to understand how the site is organized, and go from there. Feel free to ask in the relevant parts of this current discussion forum. Plenty of us here to help.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #3
      Dear Doc,
      So Leung Ting is no good? I'm sort of suprised because I was always under the opinion that people beleived his wing tsun to be real. Anyway, the tai chi experiance doesn't help in the "essence" category? If this is true, then I will have to sacrifice to get some classes from somewhere. As dumb a question as this sounds, my schedule is going to make classes painful, how long should I attend to learn enough to become able to learn from the books. You see, I still go to high school, and I have to work. I get home really late, but I would participate in a school if it is the only way. Where can I get the chinese books, and could I learn from the pictures? Is the "essence" a spiritual one, or associated with chi, or do you mean like the meaning in each posture? I understand that I can't learn it from you, but I would like to know where my shortcomings will be from the bookstudy. Thank you.

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      • #4
        Don't know Leung Ting. I don't think that you can ever learn from the pictures; at least, completely. You don't get the movements between the images. But, they can be useful for remembering stuff that you already know.

        However, I won't ever say that reading is a waste of time. Reading these books, to learn what the books can teach you, is valuable. You've got plenty of time in the future to spend time with a good teacher, to learn gong fu as it should be learned.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


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        • #5
          So you are suggesting that I read the books, just like a reading book, and not practice what is in them?

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          • #6
            Understanding requires both study and consultation with a Master. Information acquired only through reading is never sufficient. Is the book accurate? If it is, do we truly comprehend what we've read? We cannot test ourselves. Think of what would happen if students devised their own tests and graded them, too. Everyone of them would get an A! But how many of them would really know their subject?

            A good teacher is indispensable. A good teacher engages us and determines if we understand what we've studied. If we are unclear about a passage in a book, we cannot question the book. If we disagree with certain views of a teacher, we cannot skip over his instruction the way we can skip over troublesome paragraphs. It's often necessary to consult with a good teacher. There is no substitute for regular, face to face interactions.

            A mi tuo Fo
            -Xing Jian

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            • #7
              Think of what would happen if students devised their own tests and graded them, too. Everyone of them would get an A!
              yup, welcome to the exciting world of the martial arts.

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              • #8
                You know, there was once a sailor who, while on leave, met the girl of his dreams. He fell madly in love with her. Unfortunately, he had to return to his ship to finish the two years of his enlistment. So he thought, "I'll not let her forget me. Every day I'll write to her. If nothing else, she'll love me for my fidelity." Everyday, wherever he was, he wrote to her; and when he returned two years later, he learned that along about his two hundredth letter, she had married the mailman!

                Dear Friends, don't be like that poor sailor who relied on the written word to achieve an understanding. Find a master who will meet regularly with you. Open your heart to him. The better he gets to know you, the better he will be able to advise and instruct you.

                A mi tuo Fo
                -Xing Jian

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                • #9
                  haha, and especially, don't be like that poor sailor who thought the girl would love him for his fidelity.

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                  • #10
                    Women love a guy for devotion and fidelity?

                    hahahahahahahahahahahaha....

                    PS: Read whatever you can, and learn what you read. Always question. Learn the forms from a teacher, not from a book.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


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                    • #11
                      Learn the form from a teacher, then you can use the book as a great refference. VCDs, videos, the internet, etc. can all be great tools to supplementing your training, but not a replacement.
                      practice wu de

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                      • #12
                        Hey man, rock on with your training.

                        Here's the suggestions I'd make for you though. First, don't expect to learn shaolin or wudang gongfu without a teacher. This does not mean that one cannot learn from book on shaolin, this means that one does not learn shaolin gongfu from it. You can however, learn enough to practice gongfu on your own.

                        Who are you training for? If you're training for yourself, which I think you are, then rock on and stick to it, if your migraines have gone away from practice already, you're probably on the right path.

                        I taught myself for quite some time (though i had a base of 7 years in one style) and its doable and beneficial if you're a smart puppy.

                        First thing's first, you must give yourself to your training. Try to make everything you do gongfu/meditation (one and the same). So in addition to your form practice, do walking meditation (from taiji, try the footwork which takes you through repeating the posture "parting horse's mane"), standing meditation, and sitting meditation. When you are doing you forms, meditate.

                        Get a mirror with which you can check the straightness of your spine in stances. Do not move your kneecaps past your toes.

                        Relearn how to breathe. Be aware of what moves when you breathe. For most people who arent very young children, this well be your chest and ribcage. Use your abdominal muscles to breathe, by leading your lower belly out as you inhale and letting it cave in as you exhale. Do this for 10 minutes at a stretch, 1-3 times a day, until you start breathing like that unconsciously.

                        You live in connecticut? If you can't find a teacher, find a forest. You can do wonders with trees. But don't just go hitting them. There should be instructions for coiling flexible branches in Shaolin Qin Na: an instructor's manual. Also you can train blocking against lower limbs, as well as doing qigong with the tree, and climbing it. The qi is usually far better training in a forest than in an urban area as well.

                        But the most important thing you can do is to always be in practice. Meditation is not something you do for an hour every morning. It is something are always, or at least strive to be. That's a snipet of my blissful path. Good luck finding yours.
                        Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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                        • #13
                          for the record, i think Leung Ting is wing chun...but i could be wrong

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