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  • Help on Research Paper

    With the amount of time this forum has been up, I'm wondering how many times people have asked you for advice when they write real papers. Well, here's my humble request for information. I know you all have lives outside of this forum, but if you could help me, and anonymous person, I would appreciate it and it'll help you later in life I'm sure.

    Anyway, about my paper. I'm currently taking a Comparative Religions class and there's a thesis idea due next Thursday...October 7th. I was thinking about writing about how Shaolin fits into Buddhism. Specifically, my professor emphasizes that one of the 5 precepts of Buddhism is no harm, which is very important. I'm wondering if some Buddhists disagree with Shaolin's learning and teaching of martial arts. And if possible, if there are any readings I could find or any sort of justification (logic would be fine) on why Shaolin Temple can learn fighting...please tell me.

    Again, I'd really appreciate any feedback whatsoever. If you believe that this is a bad topic, please tell me that too.

  • #2
    Well,

    There have been numerous posts about the violence in fighting contradicting with the pacisfist ideals of Buddhism.

    Hmmmm, I don't really know where they are and I don't want to send you off on a wild goose chase when you have better things to do, so I will let someone else give up some links or whatever, hahaha, sorry.


    If things get tight, just drop the subject. Shaolin is not the glue that holds Buddhism together, nor does it relate to modern Buddhists in today's society.

    What I am trying to say is, Shaolin needs Buddhism, but Buddhism doesn't need Shaolin.

    That is, only if you feel that you no longer have enough time or information to write your paper. If you get some great info after my post, keep on keepin on.

    Good luck and have fun.
    Becoming what I've dreamed about.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LeiYunFat
      What I am trying to say is, Shaolin needs Buddhism, but Buddhism doesn't need Shaolin.
      i dunno, man. how many converts do you think buddhism has in america that first got interested in it because of some cool kung-fu movie?

      Comment


      • #4
        Let's make one thing straight, Buddhism does NOT practice pacifism, it practices non-violence. There is quite a difference. The Buddha never really said you couldn't defend yourself, he just said that it should always be the last resort, running away is always option number one (and usually the best).

        Plus I would have to say that most martial arts are the best source of health and fitness especially if you learn how to fight with it.

        When I was in the monastery I was never told that I could not practice the martial arts, it's just that Monastic practice and chores came first, and then when I had some free time, I could what I want which wasn't very much. I usually opted to study Buddhism, but sometimes would practice martial arts.

        It is important to note that a lot of Western Buddhist haven't the slightest clue of the difference between non-violence and pacifism; the first is do what you can to avoid conflict, the other is don't do anything. Personally that's quite a difference.

        I'll share more on this.

        Peace.
        "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

        "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

        "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by zachsan
          i dunno, man. how many converts do you think buddhism has in america that first got interested in it because of some cool kung-fu movie?
          Well you know, in the literal sense.

          Shaolin incorporates Buddhism but Buddhism doesn't incorporate Shaolin.

          Originally posted by Fa Hui
          Let's make one thing straight, Buddhism does NOT practice pacifism, it practices non-violence. There is quite a difference. The Buddha never really said you couldn't defend yourself, he just said that it should always be the last resort, running away is always option number one (and usually the best).

          Plus I would have to say that most martial arts are the best source of health and fitness especially if you learn how to fight with it.

          When I was in the monastery I was never told that I could not practice the martial arts, it's just that Monastic practice and chores came first, and then when I had some free time, I could what I want which wasn't very much. I usually opted to study Buddhism, but sometimes would practice martial arts.

          It is important to note that a lot of Western Buddhist haven't the slightest clue of the difference between non-violence and pacifism; the first is do what you can to avoid conflict, the other is don't do anything. Personally that's quite a difference.

          I'll share more on this.

          Peace.
          hahahha, was that directed towards me?

          lol. The "o" is for "ouch". HAHAHHAAH

          But really, there is a difference between Chinese and say, Tibetian Buddhism. Tibetain Buddhism is pretty damn pacisifist. Like, if someone was beating up the monk, the monk would not fight back. And if, say someone was beating up a kid, the monk would throw himself in the way of the kid.

          So if the report is on like stright up Buddhism, then I would just ignore this post and go with what Fa Hui said. It's too complicated to do a report on like...a different type of Buddhism.
          Last edited by LeiYunFat; 10-01-2004, 01:48 AM.
          Becoming what I've dreamed about.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok, I know next to nothing about buddhism, especially the tibetan monks.

            Like, if someone was beating up the monk, the monk would not fight back. And if, say someone was beating up a kid, the monk would throw himself in the way of the kid.
            If the monk did this, and he believed in pacifism (as defined earlier by Fa Hui) then surely he would be harmed beyond any extent to defend the child, and then everyone would be back at the start, with the child in danger. Would this be an accurate assumption? Or would the monk defend the child (ie practising non-violence rather than pacifism).

            Just trying to get a better handle on this for myself.
            Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.

            Comment


            • #7
              We may want to keep in mind that not all Buddhist Traditions follow what the Buddha laid down. Which doesn't make them wrong but it just doesn't make it totally "Buddhist." Buddhism can be really simple to practice, there are not a lot complications, particularly if you don't get too much culture involved.

              If you study some of the original texts of the Buddha (not the Mahayana Sutras, they are all fictional, the only that MAY not be is the Diamond Cutter), you will see that there was very little mystical and/or tantric in it. This type of Buddhism focused more on the original tenets of the Buddha, which were the Four Noble Truths. They practiced primarily meditation and the precepts. These were the door to Awakening, it was only later (and probably from the rich spiritual landscape of India) that other things were included and developed Buddhism into the many traditions we today.
              "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

              "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

              "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

              Comment


              • #8
                There's a difference between "violence" and the "defense of human life". I think it's a great idea for a paper. Truly wonderful. Sorry I can't be of any help though, I'm not a very good Buddhist. The rest of the gang here should be able to direct you. Let us know how your paper turns out, and what you learn. It's an interesting topic, feel free to share your eventual knowledge with us.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree. It's a great idea. Why not see where it takes you?
                  ZhongwenMovies.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If the mind is elegant so will the movements of the body. If the body is elegant so is your mind.
                    The path of gongfu and buddhism really has the same goal. I'd say the shaolin path just incorporates both.

                    The mind must be strong, resilient and shapeless at the same time. Like the body when you practise gongfu.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help on Research Paper

                      Originally posted by Vasuva
                      With the amount of time this forum has been up, I'm wondering how many times people have asked you for advice when they write real papers. Well, here's my humble request for information. I know you all have lives outside of this forum, but if you could help me, and anonymous person, I would appreciate it and it'll help you later in life I'm sure.

                      Anyway, about my paper. I'm currently taking a Comparative Religions class and there's a thesis idea due next Thursday...October 7th. I was thinking about writing about how Shaolin fits into Buddhism. Specifically, my professor emphasizes that one of the 5 precepts of Buddhism is no harm, which is very important. I'm wondering if some Buddhists disagree with Shaolin's learning and teaching of martial arts. And if possible, if there are any readings I could find or any sort of justification (logic would be fine) on why Shaolin Temple can learn fighting...please tell me.

                      Again, I'd really appreciate any feedback whatsoever. If you believe that this is a bad topic, please tell me that too.
                      I think the conflict you are really describing is between daoism and buddhism rather than indivual buddhist branches. I love the following comment and as much of a shaolin dedicant I am, in all regards, have to agree with his comments.


                      Ps: shaolin is what happened when daoism met confucism and was coupled with indian beliefs. Buddhism split into 2 branches and we end up with theravada ( procure nirvana for self ) and mahayana ( procure nirvana then foresake it to bring others to theirs). Unfortunately back in fuedal china, for mahayana, that involved a measure of fighting in defence to see its' country men live to another day to gain it on their own in leiu of time for dharma and doctrine tellings and teachings. Today however, where the fighting is not a means of survival, I think buddhism, particularly mahayana has taken a different spin , and everything from the noble truths to the eight fold path applied to todays society, now has different meaning and respective interperetation.

                      I am chan Buddhist and a ch'an phd student, but I believe that gongfu ( as much as I love that ) is now only one way facilitate the meditation , and honour past roots, that before was essential to do.



                      Good luck with your paper

                      BL

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