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  • Working out...? (biochemistry of lactate metabolism)

    Yesterday while I was in the shower (where I do my best thinking) I was thinking about how sore I was from working out after a very long time.

    If you all would recall the other thread about tearing muscles, I have since recovered and gotten back on the weights. Unfourtunately, I have gone down in strength. I am estimating about ten or fifteen pounds.

    While thinking, I was wondering two things:

    1.) How do some people work out so much and not be sore for so long? In the past, I have heard many, many things about how some people work out the same muscles everyday, or maybe even twice a day. I found this insane as I thought more, because I was so damn sore.

    So is it a case of willpower? Or is it that these people are physically different, rather, is it conditioning? If I get on that bench or what have you and workout everday and ignore the soreness, will I be better off?

    In the case of many kung fu practitioners, they practice everday, so does this contribute to their ability to condition themselves past the point of being sore?

    and the second though;

    2.) Why do I lose strength so much? My cousin who is a physician told me that if I were to strngth train, I would have to do it everyday and if I didn't, I would lose muscle strength, density, etc fast. He said "especially us being asian" or something. Do asian people tend to lose strength easier than others? If so, why?

    Thanks for reading.
    Becoming what I've dreamed about.

  • #2
    i don't know the answers to most of those questions, but i do know, don't ignore the soreness. muscle builds after you're done working out, so if you don't give it a break it will never build. and you could hurt yourself.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sore muscles are caused by the lactic acids in the muscles from overloading your muscles or pushing beyond their daily active use. What is generally recommended if you are sore (which will be like that for 48 to 72 hours) is to rest for a day and then to work out again the next day but a little lighter building very fast up to where you were when you got sore. Make sure you stretch, it's terribly important. Also see about getting a massage, depending on where you are a general full-body massage that lasts for one hour runs about $45 to $60. This will help to circulate the blood and flush out the lactic acids.
      "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

      "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

      "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmm, if i'm not mistaken, its not just lactic acid though. Your muscle fibers are probably hard at work rebuilding themselves from all the literal wear and tear that the microtubules are experiencing while rebuilding the muscle. Your muscle contraction works on something kind of similar to an elevator. and the more power necessary to lift a certain weight, the more cytoskeletal filaments your body needs to work as the lifting cables. This is why you lose muscle mass so quickly (although i have never heard of this being especially so in Asians) if you dont work out. Muscles work in kind of an all or none basis. Of the fiber (muscle cell) contracts, it contracts all the way. what varies is how packed with microtubules each of your muscle fibers are and, stemming from that, how many fibers are required to work the load. It takes a bit of tearing to kick this process in. Its kind of like if you were operating a pulley, and the thing tore on you. Oops! and thats what got you to decide to use thicker, more powerful rope.

        After a relatively short time though, unused muscle fibers will get rid of the bulky and metabolically expensive add-ons that the cells put on to adjust to the work-load of a frequent excercizer. I think that reaching the point where you are not sore is partially got to do with building your muscles to that particular threshold, but also has a psychological component as well.
        Often, people will start to go easy on themselves and work a little less hard bit by bit without even realizing. that way the next time they really hit it they're astonished to find themselves sore again.

        As for dealing with the pain, yes massages tend to be pretty good at relieving some of that tension.

        Oh and by the way, what i just described to you was a simplified explanation of muscle growth. This is completely different from when the cells themselves tear and you have injured the muscle. as far as how to treat that, i would ahve no clue. I'm trying to deal with what seems to be a permanently injured hamstring myself, and i personally dont know anything about how useful a massage will be for that.

        Comment


        • #5
          As you know, in past and hopefully again sometime soon, I 've worked out up to 12 hrs a day and obviously I'm hitting the same muscle and various fibres of that muscle repetitively day after day,. If you're sore ( providing it's only stiffness and not injury), stretch a while. Piliates or yoga is an awesome addition for this very reason
          As for lacking strength and or energy, I think it comes down to adequate sleep and nutrition. Alot of folks who are already working out, take a heavier longer load and really don't consider the differences in amount and qusality and type of niutrition their body now needs. I often readf [posts from folks on what they do for training and how they feed themselves and shake my head. If you want to pm me with your routine, I'm happy to give you a dietarry suggesation to fuel you through it.
          Failing that, watch your carbs ( including "non" sugared complex grains , the sugar makes it tough on your joints and the exercise seems 2 and 3 x harder), don't forget your multi vitamin, take adequate fibre or use a cleansing tea daily , drink enough water, sleep solidly for 4 hrs min a night 5-7 at best, go for solubale foods where practical and remember your spine health and vit b and c to resplenoish energy stores and metabolise those carbs that'll other wise clog you up and screw you nicely

          watch your food combos amd sleep occassionally. It is very good stuff!!!! :P

          Like I said, feel free to shoot me a pm and good luck to you otherwise

          Bl

          Comment


          • #6
            I thought the lactic acid was usually flushed after a few hours.. either way.. There are some guys over at kungfu magazines forum that have a pretty good handle on this. There is a recovery time thread right now I think too....

            practice wu de

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            • #7
              That thread was "entertaining", to say the least. The only worthwhile commentary in it was the anti-creatiine one.
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

              (more comments in my User Profile)
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              • #8
                Lactate metabolism

                I submit this, as it is written better than I could put it together:

                The expression "lactic acid" is used most commonly by athletes to describe the intense pain felt during exhaustive exercise, especially in events like the 400 metres and 800 metres. When energy is required to perform exercise it is supplied from the breakdown of Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP). The body has a limited store of about 85g of ATP and would use it up very quickly if we did not have ways of resynthesising it. There are three systems that produce energy to resynthesise ATP: ATP-PC, lactic acid and aerobic.

                The lactic acid system is capable of releasing energy to resynthesise ATP without the involvement of oxygen and is called anaerobic glycolysis. Glycolysis (breakdown of carbohydrates) results in the formation of pyruvic acid and hydrogens ions (H+). A build up of H+ will make the muscle cells acidic and interfere with their operation so carrier molecules, called nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+), remove the H+. The NAD+ is reduced to NADH which deposit the H+ at the electron transport gate (ETC) in the mitrochondria to be combined with oxygen to form water (H2O).

                If there is insufficient oxygen then NADH cannot release the H+ and they build up in the cell. To prevent the rise in acidity pyruvic acid accepts H+ forming lactic acid which then dissociates into lactate and H+. Some of the lactate diffuses into the blood stream and takes some H+ with it as a way of reducing the H+ concentration in the muscle cell. The normal pH of the muscle cell is 7.1 but if the build up of H+ continues and pH is reduced to around 6.5 then muscle contraction may be impaired and the low pH will stimulate the free nerve endings in the muscle resulting in the perception of pain (the burn). This point is often measured as the lactic threshold or anaerobic threshold or onset of blood lactate accumulation (OBLA).

                The process of lactic acid removal takes approx. one hour, but this can be accelerated by undertaking an appropriate warm down which ensures a rapid and continuous supply of oxygen to the muscles.

                Lactic acid - friend or foe?

                Lactic acid (lactate) is not:




                • responsible for the burn in the leg muscles when exercising very fast
                • responsible for the soreness you experience in the 48 hours following a hard session
                • a waste product
                Lactate, which is produced by the body all day long, is resynthesized by the liver (Cori Cycle) to form glucose which provides you with more energy. Sounds like a friend to me.

                Lactate Shuttle

                The lactate shuttle involves the following series of events:

                • As we exercise pyruvate is formed
                • When insufficient oxygen is available to breakdown the pyruvate then lactate is produced
                • Lactate enters the surrounding muscle cells, tissue and blood
                • The muscle cells and tissues receiving the lactate either breakdown the lactate to fuel (ATP) for immediate use or use it in the creation of glycogen
                • The glycogen then remains in the cells until energy is required
                65% of lactic acid is converted to carbon dioxide and water, 20% into glycogen, 10% into protein and 5% into glucose.

                Hydrogen ions

                The breakdown of glucose or glycogen produces lactate and hydrogen ions - for each lactate molecule, one hydrogen ion is formed. The presence of hydrogen ions, not lactate, makes the muscle acidic which will eventually halt muscle function. As hydrogen ion concentrations increase the blood and muscle become acidic. This acidic environment will slow down enzyme activity and ultimately the breakdown of glucose itself. Acidic muscles will aggravate associated nerve endings causing pain and increase irritation of the central nervous system. The athlete may become disorientated and feel nauseous.

                Aerobic Capacity

                Given that high levels of lactate/hydrogen ions will be detrimental to performance, one of the key reasons for endurance training is to enable the body to perform at a greater pace with a minimal amount of lactate. This can be done by long steady runs, which will develop the aerobic capacity by means of capillarisation (formation of more small blood vessels, thus enhancing oxygen transport to the muscles) and by creating greater efficiency in the heart and lungs. If the aerobic capacity is greater, it means there will be more oxygen available to the working muscles and this should delay the onset of lactic acid at a given work intensity.

                Anaerobic Threshold

                Lactic acid starts to accumulate in the muscles once you start operating above your anaerobic threshold. This is normally somewhere between 85% and 90% of your maximum heart rate (MHR).

                What a low Lactate Threshold means

                If your lactate threshold (LT) is reached at a low exercise intensity, it often means that the "oxidative energy systems" in your muscles are not working very well. If they were performing at a high level they would use oxygen to break lactate down to carbon dioxide and water, preventing lactate from pouring into the blood. If your LT is low it may mean that:

                • you are not getting enough oxygen inside your muscle cells
                • you do not have adequate concentrations of the enzymes necessary to oxidize pyruvate at high rates
                • you do not have enough mitochondria in your muscle cells
                • your muscles, heart, and other tissues are not very good at extracting lactate from the blood
                Improving your Lactate Threshold

                The aim is to saturate the muscles in lactic acid which will educate the body's buffering mechanism (alkaline) to deal with it more effectively. The accumulation of lactate in working skeletal muscles is associated with fatigue of this system after 50 to 60 seconds of maximal effort. Sessions should comprise of one to five reps (depends on the athlete's ability) with near to full recovery.

                Training continuously at about 85-90% of your maximum heart rate for 20-25 minutes will improve your LT.

                A session should be conducted once a week and commence eight weeks before a major competition. This will help the muscle cells retain their alkaline buffering ability. Improving your LT will also improve your tlimvVO2max.

                From http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk. Very well written and easily understandable site regarding exercise and biochemistry.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


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                • #9
                  GLYCOLYSIS / FERMENTATION

                  RED BLOOD CELLS: They do only glycolysis. They have no mitochondria!

                  NET ENERGETICS OF GLYCOLYSIS: Net +2ATP come from glycolysis. 2 ATPs are invested in the preparatory phase, and 4 ATPs (per original glucose) are recovered in the payoff phase.

                  METABOLISM AND DIFFERENT TISSUES: In nearly all tissues, glucose is trapped in the cell by converting it to glucose-6-phosphate via the action of hexokinase or glucokinase.

                  1. RED BLOOD CELLS
                  1. Have no mitochondria. They continually produce lactate, which is continually excreted.
                  2. OH- Antiport: Lactate is continually excreted out of the RBC, in exchange for OH- coming in. The net effect of this is to maintain the pH by preventing it from becoming too acidic.
                  2. BRAIN TISSUE
                  1. Needs lots of glucose. It makes no lactate -- it has lots of mitochondria and it metabolizes all of its glucose all the way to CO2.
                  3. ADIPOSE TISSUE
                  1. It can convert glucose-6-phosphate to glycogen
                  2. It has mitochondria, but not very plentiful. Most of the glucose does not go through TCA cycle but rather is used as building block for lipid biosynthesis.
                  4. MUSCLE AND HEART TISSUE
                  1. Can also make glycogen, but it cannot get back free glucose -- only glucose-6-phosphate.
                  2. It will oxidize glucose fully as long as there is O2 around. If the muscle runs out of oxygen, then fermentation will take over by mass action.
                  3. Fermentation results in high lactate which can be excreted and which causes muscle fatigue pain. Fermentation results from anaerobic metabolism; if the muscle does not get adequate oxygen supplies from blood circulation, either because of diminished blood circulation (vascular disease), or, diminished cardiac output (cardiac disease, or insufficient supply due to poor conditioning, lactate levels will increase in the muscle tissue. Eventually, blood perfusion "washes out" this increased lactate, which is subsequently excreted by the kidneys, or broken down by the liver. The lactic acid is the substance that triggers inflammation and pain sensation.
                  5. LIVER PARENCHYMAL CELL
                  1. Gluconeogenesis: The liver can use lactate, but first it turns it into pyruvate.
                  2. Liver uses Glucokinase to trap glucose instead of hexokinase.
                  3. Liver has a Glucose-6-Phosphatase that can actually restore free glucose, which it then can secrete into the blood. The liver is the major source of blood-glucose secretion.
                  4. If the liver is making fat, then that is a sign of poor health.
                  GLUCOKINASE -VS- HEXOKINASE:
                  1. Glucokinase has a higher km! It has a lower than normal affinity for trapping glucose in the liver.
                  1. This means it has a higher saturation point and a higher capacity for trapping glucose via the kinase activity. This allows the liver to act as a buffer in taking up extra blood glucose.
                  2. Hexokinase is inhibited by its product, G-6-P, whereas glucokinase is not. This again allows the liver to take up maximal amounts of glucose.
                  3. Glucokinase is inhibited by F-6-P and F-1-P, whereas hexokinase is not.
                  CORI CYCLE:
                  1. Muscle: Glucose ------> Lactate via glycolysis.
                  2. Lactate goes to the liver, where it is taken up.
                  3. Liver: Lactate ------> Glucose via gluconeogenesis
                  INVESTMENT PHASE OF GLYCOLYSIS: Steps 1 thru 3. It requires 2 molecules of ATP.

                  Overall: 1 Glucose ------> 2 Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate.
                  1. Glucose + ATP ------> Glucose-6-Phosphate + ADP. Phosphorylation of Glucose.
                  1. Hexokinase catalyzes the addition of phosphate from ATP to glucose. It works on other hexose sugars too. It is an induced fit.
                  2. Intermediate:
                  1. Mg+2 is required as a cofactor in the substrate. The true phosphorylating agent is the MgATP2- complex.
                  2. Intermediate is an induced fit.
                  3. First ATP comes from here.

                  2. Glucose-6-Phosphate ------> Fructose-6-Phosphate.
                  1. Reversible, catalyzed by phosphohexose isomerase.
                  2. Changing a hexose to a ketose.
                  3. Fructose-6-Phosphate + ATP ------> Fructose-1,6-biphosphate (FBP) + ADP
                  1. Catalyzed by phosphofructokinase (PFK). This the primary regulatory enzyme.
                  1. Inhibited when there is an excess of ATP.
                  2. Second ATP comes from here.
                  1. THIS IS IRREVERSIBLE -- THE COMMITTED STEP

                  FISSION STAGE: Stages 4 and 5 (or just 4, depending on how you'd like to divide it up).
                  1. Fructose-1,6-biphosphate ------> Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate + Dihydroxyacetone Phosphate -- Cleavage of Fructose-6-Phosphate.
                  1. Catalyzed by Fructose Biphosphate Aldolase. It is a reversible aldol condensation.
                  2. Dihydroxyacetone Phosphate <====> Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate
                  1. So now we have made two glyceraldehyde phosphates. These guys are in reversible equilibrium with each other, but the reaction is normally driven toward Glyc-3-Phosphate by mass action, i.e. that product is quickly taken up in the next step.
                  2. The reversible equilibrium is catalyzed by triose phosphate isomerase.
                  THE PAYOFF PHASE: Steps 6 thru 10. Now that we have two molecules of Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate, all of the following occur twice per molecule of glucose.

                  1. Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate + Pi + NAD+ ------> NADH + 1,3-bisphosphoglycerate -- Oxidation and phosphorylation.
                  1. Catalyzed by Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate Dehydrogenase.
                  2. An aldehyde is oxidized to a carboxylic acid.
                  3. An inorganic phosphate group is attached.
                  4. NAD+ ------> NADH -- It is a redox reaction, coupled to reduction of NAD+ to NADH.
                  5. The product is a an "acyl phosphate" -- a type of anhydride. It has very high phosphorylation potential.
                  2. 1,3-bisphosphoglycerate + ADP ------> 3-Phosphoglycerate + ATP
                  1. Reaction is "coupled" with #6. Bisphosphoglycerate is the common intermediate.
                  2. Produces *two* ATP per original glucose. This is the BREAK-EVEN POINT. We have recovered our original investment.
                  3. Very exergonic (DeltaG is even more negative than that required for ADP ------> ATP). The product is quite stable.
                  4. Remember that 1,3-bisphosphoglycerate is a powerful phosphorylating agent.
                  5. Catalyzed by phosphoglycerate kinase.
                  6. This is referred to as substrate-level phosphorylation, via a coupled reaction with #6, as opposed to oxidative phosphorylation, via electron transport gradients.
                  1. Or, it is just a direct transfer of phosphate from one compound to another.
                  3. 3-Phosphoglycerate ------> 2-Phosphoglycerate. Simple isomerization.
                  1. Catalyzed by phosphoglycerate mutase.
                  2. Intermediate: 2,3-Bisphosphoglycerate (2,3-BPG).
                  1. 2,3-BPG decreases hemoglobin affinity for oxygen.
                  2. This step in the reaction can serve as a source for 2,3-BPG in the cell, in red blood cells, e.g.
                  3. When the phosphoglycerate mutase enzyme is bound to the membrane, it is partaking in glycolysis, but when it is set free in the cytosol, it can give you free 2,3-BPG to be used for other purposes.
                  4. The enzyme can also function as a 2,3-BPG Phosphatase, working in reverse.
                  4. 2-Phosphoglycerate ------> Phosphoenolpyruvate (PEP). Dehydration reaction.
                  1. PEP has a high phosphorylation potential (much higher than reactant).
                  2. Enzyme is enolase. Simple beta-removal of water.
                  5. Phosphoenolpyruvate + ADP ------> Pyruvate + ATP
                  1. The substrate is now completely dephosphorylated.
                  2. 2 more ATPs produced per original molecule of glucose.
                  3. Catalyzed by Pyruvate Kinase. Another substrate-level coupling reaction.
                  ENERGETICS OF GLYCOLYSIS: Total energy yielded per original molecule of glucose.
                  1. +2 NADH: Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate Dehydrogenase (step 6)
                  2. +2 ATP net
                  1. -1 ATP (per original glucose): Hexokinase (step 1)
                  2. -1 ATP (per original glucose): Phosphofructokinase (step 3)
                  3. +2 ATP (per original glucose): Phosphoglycerate Kinase (step 7)
                  4. +2 ATP (per original glucose): Pyruvate Kinase (step 10)
                  LACTIC ACID FERMENTATION: In the absence of oxygen, it allows for the NADH to be reoxidized to NAD+. This is considered the official "end" to glycolysis, in the absence of oxygen.
                  1. REDOX Reaction: One step process.
                  1. REDUCTION: Pyruvate is reduced to lactate. (Keto changed to 2 alcohol).
                  2. OXIDATION: NADH is oxidized to NAD+
                  2. Note that overall process from Glucose to Lactate involves no net change in the oxidation state of carbon. It is the same in glucose as in lactate.
                  3. No ATP produced!!! The purpose is to regenerate the NAD+.
                  4. Catalyst is lactate dehydrogenase (LDH). Note that although it is named dehydrogenase, this reaction is actually a hydrogenation (hydrogens are added). Hence the enzyme is named for the reverse reaction.
                  1. This enzyme is used in REVERSE, too. Both reactions are essential:
                  1. Pyruvate ------> Lactate: Gives us NAD+ for glycolysis and TCA cycle.
                  2. Lactate ------> Pyruvate: Gives us NADH for electron transport chain, and restores pyruvate for further metabolism.
                  3. THE FATE OF LACTATE -- Ultimately the ONLY thing it can do is go back to pyruvate! It can then be resynthesized back to glucose via gluconeogenesis, or pyruvate can be oxidized via pyruvate dehydrogenase.

                  REGULATION OF GLYCOLYSIS:

                  1. Metabolic Crossover: The notion that all intermediates before an inhibited step will tend to build up, while all those intermediates after the step will tend to decrease.
                  2. PASTEUR EFFECT: Glycolysis is substantially inhibited under aerobic conditions.
                  1. The step that it is inhibited at is the Phosphofructokinase (PFK) step of Fructose-1-Phosphate ------> Fructose-1,6-Biphosphate
                  2. O2 makes LDH work in reverse -- and fast -- to make pyruvate to be used in the TCA cycle.
                  3. NON-PHYSIOLOGICAL controllers:
                  1. 2-Deoxyglucose -- No OH-group at 2'-position results in significant inhibition of glucose.
                  2. Sulfhydryl Reagents (Iodoacetic acid) -- they ruin glycerol phosphate dehydrogenase, which has an essential sulfhydryl group.
                  3. Fluoride Ion -- Potent inhibitor of enolase.
                  1. The concentration required to inhibit glycolysis is orders of magnitude higher than that found added in water or toothpaste.
                  4. Arsenate -- phosphate analog will form 1-arsenate-3-phosphoglycerate which then spontaneously hydrolyzes, to ruin glycolysis at the glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase step.
                  4. REGULATORY ENZYMES:
                  1. Hexokinase is inhibited by its product, Glucose-6-Phosphate.
                  2. Phosphofructokinase (PFK) generally is inhibited by energy-rich indicators and is stimulated by things that indicate a need for energy.
                  1. Stimulated by: AMP, inorganic phosphate, Fructose-2,6-biphosphate
                  2. Inhibited by: ATP, citrate, low pH (i.e. high levels of intracellular lactate).
                  5. Fructose-2,6-biphosphate: A key regulating enzyme. Its levels are responsive to the effects of insulin and glucagon.

                  1. ACTION: It increase the rate of glycolysis.
                  2. REGULATION: It is stimulated by insulin and inhibited by glucagon, which makes sense if you think that insulin promotes the uptake and utilization of sugars.

                  FUTILE CYCLES -- generation of heat

                  1. You can go back and forth between Glucose <====> Glucose-6-Phosphate, with the net effect being the loss of ATP as heat. A different enzyme catalyzes it in each direction. This is called a futile cycle.
                  2. Malignant Hyperthermia -- an adverse reaction to Halothane Anesthesia and other inhalational anesthetic agents and injected drugs in a small percentage of people, leading to high fever and potentially death. The syndrome is characterized by an increase in temperature, and, a drastic increase in carbon dioxide production.


                  Thanks to the University of Kansas for help with this.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #10
                    I hope there is not a test on this later.
                    I do not have a psychiatrist and I do not want one, for the simple reason that if he listened to me long enough, he might become disturbed.
                    "Life can keep providing the rain and I'll keep providing the parade."
                    "I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle."
                    "Whatever guy said that money don't buy you pleasure didn't know where to go shopping"

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                    • #11
                      LeiYunFat, my friend, I don't know too much about all this stuff everyone has just posted...and god I hope there's no test.

                      Honestly, I think a lot of it does come down to pure will power. A couple years ago I was in really great condition. I basically could do anything I thought of with my body. Then I moved (literally and figuratively) away from training. In two years time I lost so much. Balance, stamina, strength....and so on.

                      Then, I started training again recently. At first I thought my knees wouldn't be able to handle it. Now my knees don't get sore anymore.

                      Actually I love that feeling of soreness, just cause it's like a sign to me that at some point I'll be able to do more with the potential of not being as sore.. The first week I was so sore.. the second week I wanted to slow down.. and now, the day after a semi hard practice I don't even really feel the soreness that much. You don't lose everything. In fact, it must comes back faster the second time around.

                      Just give yourself a day's rest. I find my workouts are better if I'm still sore when I start practicing again. I remember years back when my shifu would harp about coming out of a stance. He couldn't stand it, or rising up for that matter. You can always sit lower, he would say, just don't stand up. My legs would be so numb because it was his basic belief that once you stand up...you create a habit. If, rather, you continue to say I'm not standing up till after practice, well, you might be sore for a couple weeks or months, but after which your going to have a pretty strong foundation.

                      Yeah, it's got to be will power.

                      g
                      ZhongwenMovies.com

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                      • #12
                        Muscle fatigue

                        Look, it all boils down to this.

                        Muscles fatigue, in a typical pattern, but variable from person to person, over time. People think of muscle fatigue as a failure to maintain a desired force, or ability to maintain consistent contractions. The power produced by the muscle diminishes. Some people think that there is a concious or sub concious perception in the amount of power that can be produced by the muscle, which changes over time.

                        Interesting concept. Fatigue can be a perception as well as a physical concept. The perception can be defined as central fatigue. You get an increase in this when you start to experience a lack of motivation. There actually might be a physical reason for central fatigue, that is, an actual change in the amount of impulses sent from the brain through the spinal cord to the muscles. Motivation is an important part of fatigue; the perception of pain, and lack of continued interest, can lead to an increased perception of fatigue, which results in the individual seeking rest.

                        Peripheral fatigue is associated with the actual motor units in the muscle. Impairment can occur in the nerves themselves, the neurochemical junction between the nerves and the muscle fibers, and, the interaction between the actin and myosin proteins within the microfibers of the muscles themselves.

                        Fatigue is not only related to motivation; nutritional factors (the amount of glucose available, the use of creatine, or, other pharmacological agents), conditioning, and the actual type of muscle fibers that the muscles consist of. High speed, quick twitch fibers will fatigue faster than slow twitch, "heavy lifting" fibers.

                        It is generally felt that two concepts come into play when explaining the physiology of fatigue. The first is accumulation; that is, fatigue is caused by the accumulation of various by products of metabolism, that trigger the perception of fatigue. Accumulation of hydrogen ions, lactate, phosphate, free radicals, and adenosine diphospate, is found in the interstitial and cellular spaces of working muscles. The other concept, exhaustion, comes into play, as a decrease in glycogen, nerve firing, and individual muscle fiber contraction, all occurs as a muscle becomes "used". All these play some sort of role in the production of fatigue.

                        Various pharmacologic agents can be useful in fighting the perception of fatigue. Caffeine not only causes central brain stimulation, which can help with motivation and the pain response, but, it also helps increase calcium ion build up in the muscle tissues, which causes the troponin molecule assist in muscle contraction. Caffeine increases the release, and decreases the re-uptake, of the calcium ion in the muscle fibers.

                        Conditioning helps diminish the onset of fatigue, by helping to increase motivation, and, by helping to provide more substrate for muscle metabolism. Improved circulation also helps to remove the accumulated wastes which can lead to the perception of fatigue.


                        Got it? Understand?

                        Good. I'm going back to bed. I'm tired.
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


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                        • #13
                          That's it, I'm dropping this class.

                          Thanks for all your help, guys!
                          Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                          • #14
                            Hey, you wanted to know, LOL.

                            Do we all see yet another warning coming? Lack of appreciation? Improper scholastic attitude? Failure to do one's homework?

                            We'll let the underworld decide.

                            Satan awaits.
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


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                            • #15
                              That's a cool explanation of fatigue. Explains alot about the whys and hows. Thnx.

                              ADAM

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