shin training

[rednoj]

Hi,

I'm new to this site so I ask that you guys bare with me if my question has been addressed on another post or if they are stupid.

Do any of you guys shin train? I haven't met many fu-sters whose masters make them do this, but then again, my master has a couple of screws loose.

[Maestro]

lots of diff ways to shin train in kung fu

only reason most schools dont teach is because they dont expect their students to need that technique, they probably feel what they learn in class is sufficient for self defense...

but, if your training to become really crazy shin training is definately a must for fighters

espicially the lil kung fu guys heheheh

[doc]

I'm "shin training" now. But I'm in Thailand training in Muay Thai. It's an important part of the one significant kick that they use. It's done in stages; first you start with a soft bag, then a medium bag (a little harder), and then, once the skin on the front of your legs, and the top of your feet, are tougher and more resistant to trauma, you start kicking this heavy bag full of sand, that is standing on the floor. You basically kick it around the room. I'm to the point where I'm using the heavy bag, but only minimally. The tops of my feet still get cut up, and red as hell. I'm doing better with my shins.

In gong fu, I've seen "shin training". Monks and students will "kick" a tree or another hard object, striking it with their tibia's (shin). The idea behind it, is, the more you strike a part of your body against a harder object, the tougher the skin gets, and the harder the bone. It's also done with the hands, forearms, thighs, upper arms, and with the top of the head. It's part of hard qi gong training. I've seen it very commonly among young Chinese gong fu students, who do push ups on their fists, all with the purpose of strengthening their knuckles. Unfortunately, some of their hands have been so traumatized, that their knuckles are deformed. Irreversibly.

You'll see a lot of this type of training in the Okinawan arts, especially with the hands. The Okinawan martial artists are very much into toughening the body, to the point where some of these guys are strictly amazing. Maybe, to the point, where it's too much. What some of these guys can endure is just, well, to me, bizarre. I think that there are limits to everything, and, quite frankly, some of these guys go past the limit. But, I guess that's what they want out of their training.

If you're thinking of "shin training", take your time with it. As Shi De Cheng says, you climb a mountain one step at the time. Good advice for anyone interested in any sort of body conditioning type of training.

[Maestro]

other methods

ive heard rolling bamboo(or equivalent) on your shins and arms is easier and more effective then the muy thai approach..

muy thai approach may be quicker though..

[rednoj]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I guess the real reason I ask is because I feel that most schools here in California have compromised their standards to keep paying students coming back. I don't blame them since not many people would pay to go through excruciating pain. But still, it concerns me to see an art compromised.

Thanks for the advice on shin training, Doc and Maestro. As a matter of fact, the method my master used to train our shins are similar to your suggestions... in addition to shin clashing (he wants us to be sadistic j/k).

Again, thank you for your replies.

[secretsneaker]

You're not alone in having your instructor make you do shin conditioning drills. Occasionally, my teacher has us devote an entire training session to conditioning the shins through two person drills. In my opinion, it's almost a necessity for someone who engages in regular sparring, since the shins are impacted during the successful (or not so successful) completion of different moves, especially the kick that the muay thai guys specialize in that doc mentioned (we have open sparring at our school, everyone is welcomed, so you never know who will show up. being prepared is a good idea). Two partner impact drills is a good way to handle this, since two people can work through this and help to moderate each others pace, alternately pushing each other and backing down when the pain gets too great. It's a good way to raise your threshold.

[Maestro]

OHHH SNAPS B

OHHH JESUS!!

YOUR SCHOOL IS ALLOWING PEOPLE OFF THE STREET TO SPAR WITH YOU?????

FREAKIN A!!

ok crazy man rant over..

but seriously man you live in Penn!! cripes thats not that far from Connecticut and if i really wanted to i could get there! espcially since my aunt and my cousin are going through breast cancer and my mom visits regularly i could make it happen! oh god.....

what are the rules do you just let anybody even if they ahve little ma exp?

are there restrictions to techniques?

whats the DEAL!?!?!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[secretsneaker]

Sparring.

Lol. Many people I talk to are surprised when I tell them this. Our school spars every Friday night at one of the local university buildings and anyone can come. Anyone. Marc (our instructor) always says "all good attitudes are welcome". We even post flyers around the city. I've sparred with all different kinds of people, from karatekas to grapplers, and the very rare kung fu practicioner from another school. Our instructor watches us constantly to make sure everything is friendly. Another thing that will surprise you is that the majority of our sparring is bare handed. We rely on supervision and the mutual respect for one anothers safety to keep everything cool. Problem people are weeded out by the instructor before they can do harm. As far as for specific rules, light contact (usually open handed) to the face and head, hard contact to the body, throws and takedowns, qi na by experienced practicioners, just about anything goes. In my opinion, this is the best way to train I've found so far. I've come across many different ways of fighting, and each is an opportunity to grow. This raises a question I was going to ask anyway. How does everyone else handle this aspect of training? Many of the other gungfu schools I've run across don't spar at all, or do point sparring (which I do not like). One eagle claw person told me that their art was so deadly that they couldn't practice it on people! How does everyone else handle this? If this question would better be posed in a different section, or a new thread, feel free. All feedback is welcome.

[Maestro]

wow..

wow..nice man, im definately coming when i get in a lil better shape..and i think im gonna practice grappling with a friend of mine..

sounds cool!

peace

[rednoj]

I agree with secretsneaker. Most fu schools emphasize too much on form and as a result, the majority of the students become paper tigers... that is unless they stick to it long enough for the instructor to allow them to spar. With this said, you may notice that the typical beginning fu-ster will not fare well with beginners from most other styles.

This is not to say that the schools who do not do much sparring is inferior. Most fu styles require a lot of time perfecting form so that the practitioner can generate power properly and efficiently while maintaining "wierd" fighting stances (maintaining defense).

Point fighting in my opinion is good for reflex training only... well that and a cardiovascular workout. It doesn't allow you to really practice the techniques you're supposed to acquire from doing forms and what not. And more importantly, it does not teach the student how to take hits as well. I don't care what some cocky master sitting in his commercialized studio full of shiny trophies from point fighting freestyle tournaments say, you have to assume that you WILL get hit in a fight, unless you're some Shaolin monk whose been training since the age of 5. That's almost as dumb as telling a student not to get grabbed when sparring a grappler. Their art is solely based on grabbing the opponent. The solution is a lot more involved.

Sparring bare handed is essential for the fu practitioner. You can't use any of the animal styles, palming, hit pressure points... etc if you wear gloves.

We welcome anybody to join as well. We start off slow and gradually build up speed and power as you get into it. For the beginners, we pair them up with the advanced students (since they have control). The intermediates can spar each other or with the advanced. The crazy street brawlers who come in with a chip on their shoulders are perhaps the most welcomed since they are uncontrolled and unpredictable. This makes them good reflex and control testers but only the advanced and some intermediates who show potential spar them.

I've seen several fu styles that have a pretty interesting and effective sparring method. Among them, I feel that Wing Chun's method is noteworthy since it allows you to go full speed to develop reflex as well as develop power in proper form while in a very controlled manner. Since it's a southern style, they don't walk around as much. So essentially, two students stand face to face at a little less than arms distance. Back is straight, knees bent inward (kind of like Baqua). To put it in a nutshell, hands are engaged like qi na and they start striking and defending while staying stationary. The goal here is to teach the student to stand his/her ground. Of course, they start off slow as well. As each student progresses, he/she can start using kicks. This is effective in teaching the student how to kick at close distance, as well as teaching to defend against kicks in close distance without stepping back or to the side. As a result, they develop a good habit of jamming their opponent’s kicks.

Anyone from Los Angeles? I would love to meet more fellow fusters to train with.

Secretsneaker, do you have problems when you spar a particular style? I usually have a tough time with boxers and grapplers.

Does anyone goto the Tiger Balm tournament held in Northern California?

[Lipster]

I'm a little dubious with the idea of anyone off the street going straight into sparring. What if you get some nut who completely freaks out if he's hurt accidentally? He can cause alot of damage to his partner before the teacher can butt in. I've always thought that is pretty important for a teacher to get to know someones character - just a little at the very least - to before allowing someone to start full sparring...

[rednoj]

there definitely is a character screening. And yes, there's always potential for them to do alot of damage. This is why only the advanced and intermediate students who show potential are allowed to spar these guys. You'd be surprised at how well they respect your grounds when you treat them as an equal.

[Maestro]

your school?

your school has open sparring to red?

i thought it was just secretsneeker...

[arhat]

nobody's ever gotten sued?

[rednoj]

yes we do Maestro. If you have relatives here in the west coast, maybe you can you some out and join us as well.