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  • Shi Yan Ming: More commentary

    Originally posted by LeiYunFat

    And as good as Shaolin monks like SYM are, I doubt that they would consistantly demolish some of these UFC guys in a ring bout. Despite the obvious prowess of SYM, it is my belief that the advantage is on the UFC'ers.
    Could someone fill me in on the obvious prowess/fighting record of SYM?

  • #2
    This is all relative. I'd be willing to bet that there are just as many (if not slightly) more people training qin na in the world right now as there were in 1890. It only looks like its not being taught when you look at the entire martial arts market in the U.S. and world economy. There are far more karate teachers in the U.S. than wushu instructors, and there are far more wushu instructors than tcma teachers.


    But the simple fact is that truly good tcma teachers have always been rare. Low quality ma instruction has always been more common and easier to find than qin na masters.


    Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two, or three places in north america where you can drop your life (as long as you have sizeable savings accounts) and train qin na all you want. Its still here. It was just never as popular among the masses as is the sword dance.

    People love to dance. Wushu didn't start this century. People have always liked martial dance performances. How many people would rather learn to do aerials and backflip kicks, or stand in your yard all day playing one handed catch by yourself with a 20 lb stone lock for a ball.

    If you're concerned about the availability of this knowledge to future generations, buy a windlass and wristweights, use them every day, with daily panther claw pushups and start looking for a sifu.
    But please, don't bash wushu because you secretly think its satan's revenge on the chinese because the hates gong fu.
    Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dogchow108
      Could someone fill me in on the obvious prowess/fighting record of SYM?
      Okay, no need for that shit, I was bascially talking to the guys who know SYM and know he's formidable. It's pretty obvious that he's well respected and renown for his prowess among his students, and his students come on here to talk about him in this way. I was using him as an example or as a foil of sorts for other skilled peoples as SYM. Would you have preferred Jet Li or Tony Jaa? It sounds even more like false idol worship to me than just talking about SYM.

      Thanks for the explanation, Dao. How ignorant of me.
      Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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      • #4
        Okay, no need for that shit...
        LOL, nice.

        in my mind, SYM is in the same boat as jet li and tony jaa when it comes to competitive fighting... that is, none of them do it, nor do they have any record in it. so it's kinda pointless to theorize about who would beat who.

        now when it comes to making money, jet li has them all beat. and SYM is clearly the best in the group at being a shaolin monk.

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        • #5
          Well, if they were to hypothetically get into a ring with the UFC dudes. Of course, Jet Li claims he's never even been in a fight. But they're all skilled in the arts of fighting (SYM, Jet Li, Tony Jaa) and to use SYM was like appealing to the experience of those who know him, instead of everyone who simply sees Jaa or Li on the screen.
          Last edited by LeiYunFat; 08-29-2005, 09:44 PM.
          Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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          • #6
            This is all very well and good, but seriously...who would win between mighty dog and mickey mouse? Heard both are very trained in the arts.

            g
            ZhongwenMovies.com

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            • #7
              Mighty dog? Sounds like he'd be the winner. Mickey Mouse is pretty weak.
              Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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              • #8
                I think Mighty Mouse would kick all their asses.

                And, from looking MM's picture, you can see that Mighty Mouse would make one hell of a Shaolin monk.

                He's got the "talent".

                And he thinks he knows how to get a Green Card.
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                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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                • #9
                  "thinks" being the operative word here, right?

                  And I should have thought to include mighty mouse. I'm sorry. It's just that, well, ummm....

                  g
                  ZhongwenMovies.com

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                  • #10
                    i believe that wu shu, is a part of the culture of a people dedicated to preserving a tradition. there are plenty of secrets in the art that are yet to be discovered. traditional gong fu, holds the same promise. the thing to remember however, is that gong fu is for fighting. most people use it as a general exercise these days. that is just as sad an application of the art as any. governments around the country are trying to teach the military and police organizations, but the general thought is that the public should be non violent.

                    wushu is one attempt to preserve some of the foundations built by gong fu.

                    any artist could learn a great deal, if they have an open mind, and an eye to see, and investigate the truth. most players on both sides are egomaniacs out to prove what and who's better at the skills they have. the truth of the matter is this; the winner of a fight MAY be skillful, or just lucky.

                    but a tru martial artist is dedicated to learning the skills that will help them to protect themselves, their families, and countrymen.

                    and here's the kick in the head, they don't do a lot of TALKING about it either.

                    fighting for sport is stupid, when you consider that people are hurt and/or maimed for a title or a belt and some money, how smart is that, when some of these so-called great fighters would get beat down if it came to self-defense on the street. Fighting (real fighting) is a somber occaision, that may cause great harm to people that are indirectly involved and not even present at the time of the fight. what's so sweet about that???

                    peace

                    onefocus

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                    • #11
                      i am a wu shu fan. and people hate me

                      Coming from a tcm background, I have embraced wushu and appreciate it immensely.
                      People may be complaining about how 'ineffective' a kip up or a butterfly kick is in combat, but i could equally question how effective bench pressing, or punching to the head (at a high risk of hitting teeth and permenantly damaging knuckles) with boxing gloves is in combat also.
                      The idea of Chinese martial arts has always been for self defense/combat, and it involves alot of training. And wushu exercises are incredible for training strength, balance, endurance, flexibility, etc. What makes Chinese martial arts appealing to us is the 'art' in the martial arts. Otherwise, we'd all just be bjj thugs for 'maximum effective' fighting - if there's such a thing as an ultimate fighting style. (And I think it's generally agreed that it's the training - the person, not the system or style that gives one an edge in combat). So for being 'combat effective' in training one's body I have no qualms with contemporary wushu. So an extra dimension is in Chinese martial arts, not just for fighting technique. For shaolin it's a spiritual discipline and imitation of nature. Not necessarily the most straight forward method of combat, but useful for meditation and developing character and strength of body. For wushu, it's competition. So what. There's always been competition.
                      Personally I think people slam wushu because they're jealous they can't perform those amazing acrobatic feats and display of skill, coordination, stamina, etc. They want to be good, and see someone do an artistic demonstration of skill and go 'pff thats crap, cant use it in a fight'. Wereas they see some young punk shin kicking until the nerves are destroyed and they think 'yeah. thats tough. i can do that'. And I'm thinking 'pff thats crap cant do that when im part 25'.
                      Having said all that, I am a little dissapointed at how 'advanced' wushu is progressing now to up the standard of competition. Now it is just the acrobatics, and kicks in the air. Not stringing together legitimate traditional wushu techniques into a routine. The crowd pleasers are the long fist flying through the air stuff. It's cool and all. But for us 6'2" 85kg slugs who prefer southern (and can use it in sparring), we have no glory.
                      But I still love wushu.
                      I await people to call me a chang chuan silk clad pansie...

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                      • #12
                        (And I think it's generally agreed that it's the training - the person, not the system or style that gives one an edge in combat).
                        you think wrong. when it comes to martial arts, nothing at all is generally agreed upon. i say tomato, you say tomato. i say potato, you say you knock someone out with your qi energy from 10 feet away.

                        call my cynical, but in the wide world of martial arts, just about everything is bullshit.

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                        • #13
                          "call my cynical". i sound like a depressed jar jar binks.

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                          • #14
                            Who's this guy? Sounds like a real chang chuan silk clad pansie to me... but... that's just me.

                            g
                            ZhongwenMovies.com

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                            • #15
                              boofhead; you make some interesting points, personally from your descriptions of cma vs more live training such as mma or training for nhb, i feel you dont what your talking about. for one, from what ive gathered it isnt the fact that wushu looks flashy moreso the fact that there is such a lack of combat efficiency, that when most see wushu they cant tell the difference between that and real kung fu. and then when real gung fu peeps who can fight arent running over walls and jumping in the air etc dont do things like this, ignorant people will assume that their skills are below average for the cma.

                              just imagine if you were at the park and some wushu students come out to practice a jian or dao or something and they start flippin their little brains out all over the place, whilst theres some wing chun guys standing still moving their arms around in funny ways, which do you think will get more respect?

                              you can always say yea those haters of wushu cant do it..yea ok thats your oppinion, in the end to me training wushu is useless unless you like putting on shows. theres nothing you can gain from wushu that you cant from a traditional training regime, if you disagree i would have to assume you havent been exposed to enough traditional training methods

                              the whole point of contemporary wushu is to show off the athleticism of the practitioner, but nothing more. whomever thinks any of those things are 'easy' they have another thing coming for sure. but thats got nothing to do with the general perception of wushu by martial artists.

                              as for your comment about the "young punks" well, disrespect em all you like, step in a ring with em and they will disrespect your face all over the mat. you can say whatever you wish but when it comes time to put your skills to the test they for the most part are glad to accomodate you.

                              infact amongst most mma the lack of respect for traditional arts is just about as abundant as the respect given to wushu practitioners in traditional circles. most often because most like to talk more then they like to act, and gung fu is all about action, in whatever sense you wish see it.
                              "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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