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  • your Iron palm training

    I have read the seidokan page on this site. It gives a nice overview of what to do when actaully practicing iron palm but what about pre/post strike exercises and what not to do when training in Iron palm. I have been practicing Iron palm for 2 years and I have a hard time finding legitimate info on it.

    I am just looking for other people who practice Iron palm who are willing to SHARE information. I know some schools/teachers regard Iron Palm as a secret and don't want to share the knowledge but I am willing to share my information and knowledge, as small as it is, on the subject. I just want to get a better understanding of Iron Palm training from different aspects and different styles.

    So to start the sharing process I started my training with a nice warm-up and some Iron Palm qi-gong followed by application of dit da jow and hit the bag (a duck cloth bag with about 4-6lbs of sand in it) 30 times each hand for one month and move on from there. Is this consistent with what other people do?
    "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

  • #2
    first off, i highly reccomend kwong wing lams book on 'iron palm' although i havent read it, he is my si gung and i have read some of it at the leasure whilst visiting my former sifu

    secondly, hitting sand is ok, but for begginer mung beans are better. why this is so is for many reasons, firstly the mung beans have a herbal effect which conditions the skin and ligaments, when you hit them they excrete a dust which goes into your hand, for instance in iron body(small golden bell qi gong) we always start with the mung beans first, because of this effect. traditionally you hit the beans, then the gravel, then the ball bearings. to make significant progress you need to train atleast 1 hour a day. if youve been practicing 2 years i assume you understand the focus is not on hard power but more on focusing the intent on the hand, whether it be the knife, back hand or palm you need to hit the bag correctly for the Iron Palm force. hitting the bag repetitively is not soley for conditioning although this plays a large factor, more so you are training to focus the qi to your hand, so when you strike you get the desired effect

    have i trained IP, well somewhat, while i was in china i trained it every day but in a fasion most will never really know, it was specific to my style and involved numerous different things, all of course complementary to focusing the power into the strike.

    you can purchase everything you need for IP at www.wle.com kwong wing lams enterprise/homepage

    also, you said you apply the jow then hit the bags, this is not right. for one you do not want the jow on your hands before you practice because the healing effect is nullified and the massage(when applying the jow) which is primarily what prevents loss of sensitivity and bone/ligament damage should not be done pre training for obvious reasons. understand to make any significant gains in this gong you MUST train for atleast 1 hour a day, for 10 years. after which you can train every couple of days for atleast 1 hour session just for upkeep.

    so you understand, there are different methods of IP obviously, but what i am describing here are the basics and what is most important is the basic. if you disregard the basic requirements, you will be wasteing time and effort in something which can reap powerful benefits if done correctly and dilligently.
    "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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    • #3
      Maestro, where do you live? You're pretty well-versed.
      Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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      • #4
        Maestro is well versed. In fact, you should see some of the verses he's posted, many many years ago, in the old ARCHIVE forum, LOL....

        Got to love that guy. Another one of my "sons"....
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


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        • #5
          LYF-connecticut

          and, if you read the archive, trust me your missing out on some goodies that got eradicated, and for good cause. but there are alot of gems in that old forum, once and awhile ill go back just for a good laugh. i think one of my favorites was when i posted the picture of kwan yin which made dan and antonious flip out..heheheh

          i also liked it when wkk threatened to sue me though..hmmm
          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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          • #6
            I have heard about the mung bean bags but have never used them. My teacher said we'd be fine if we apply the dit da jow liberally and massage it in until it becomes sticky and dry....this brings helps bloodflow and "qi" through the hands so when you are hitting there is less trauma. I am basing this on what I think because I have no information from anywhere else that clearly explains iron palm. My teacher isn't really forthcoming either (i hope that doesn't mean what I think it means...). Maestro since you have trained iron palm can you discuss what processes you went through while training in china? did you build up any calluses? do you still practice it?
            "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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            • #7
              tetsumaru, listen dont apply jow before training. im sorry but your sifu is wrong, i mean..reduce trauma, thats ridiculous thats not what jow is for and its not even how jow works. jow is more or less for lubrication for when you massage the affected area. true it has a herbal effect and is usually alcohol based so it is absorbed by the skin quickly but its not some magical fluid that is gonna keep you from getting hurt or something or reduce stress or trauma.

              as for my training, in china it was very intense, the IP was for small portion of what i did. the ip training i went through was specific to my style like i said before, you really arent going to find the type of training i did anywhere else. its not that we did the strikes much different then anyone else moreso there were other factors involved that are hard to describe atm. either way the main strikes in IP are the knife hand, backhand and palm. i was taught when you hit you slap the backhand down first, then flip the hand so that you go right into the knife hand, then down into the palm. its all done quickly so you dont really lift your hand like most IP practictioners are used to. for the most part we stressed short power in the IP, but again we did both, we did the traditional way most people learn to hit the bag and it was included in the training but there were other factors involved...

              no i didnt develope calluses, IP is not Iron Fist. Pan Qing Fu is IRON Fist, he has callouses and such because he punches steel a thousand times a day, i mean, thats great he can definately **** up alot of people just because of that, and when he taps you it stings the marrow of your bones..lolo but thats not what i desire no ty.

              the worst i ever got from IP was swollen hand, but keep in mind in china i was training about 7 hours a day and that included alot of different things, not to mention fighting, which we did every day so you can imagine some of the injurys.
              "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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              • #8
                Ok I'll experiment and see if I feel any difference by not applying the jow first. I asked whether or not you got any calluses to see if you knew anything. Of course we know you shouldn't develop calluses while training IP. The technique of slapping the bag with the different strikes is interesting. I simply raise my hand and let gravity pull it back down 200x each hand for the palm and I have now just started using the back of my hand. gets boring.....do you still practice?
                "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                • #9
                  lifting the hand up and dropping it with "gravity" behind it or whatever is odd to me. theres no power there. to get the IP effect you must focus the intent on the palm. for the upmost power in IP you involve the whole body but whilst training it is more important to put the intent on the palm or whichever part you are strikeing with. when you hit the bag it should be clear there is power there. you should hear a swaaap type sound, and you should feel the power spread through your hand.

                  do i still train IP. no, simply because i have no bag, but also because i focus on other things. for example i believe i already said i train iron body(small golden bell qi gong) and that takes up way more time then IP. iron body is basically a whole system in itself, and personally i have trouble fitting it into my schedule. not to mention i have alot of kung fu and hard qi gong to practice besides the small golden bell. so in short no i dont practice IP atm but if i can ever get in the position to train it fulltime i will definately do so. it is very much worth the time, i would just rather focus on the iron body more because well, personal preferance i guess. and..i already hit like a truck, lolo
                  "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Maestro
                    lifting the hand up and dropping it with "gravity" behind it or whatever is odd to me. theres no power there.
                    I left out the minute details of using body mechanics and focus to aid the practice. what about diet and sexual activity? Since you still practice golden bell I'm sure you have information on these subjects.

                    I have been told to limit sexual activity of any kind down to once a week at most. And even then you must wait 4 hours after that one time to begin practice.

                    Eating, as we know, is very important to any martial artist. I felt this even more so when I started Iron palm. Sugary foods make it harder to focus energy where it is needed and improper nutrition just makes me lazy and not want to train. Breaking my sugar addicition has been the hardest and I still struggle with it. I've been to an acupunturist and I have tried to avoid those foods but I am weak when it comes to the delicious sweetness of such things. Any suggestions?
                    "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                    • #11
                      Eating, as we know, is very important to any martial artist
                      Fairly important to the rest of the population too I think..

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                      • #12
                        I meant diet....
                        "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                        • #13
                          diet and sexual activity. well for the first one im in the same boat as you..lolo. right now i just ate a fruit rollup, and well..it all goes down hill from there. now im not fat in the least im in very good shape but i eat alot of crap, but i also eat alot, usually i eat less then i would like only because i have a hard time getting alot of food..

                          anyway, diet is important for some more then others, personally i have no suggestions pertaining to the IP.

                          sexual activity we are told that after having intercourse you have to wait 1 day before training. thats according to kwong wing lam iron body, iron palm master from ku yue cheong lineage.
                          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                          • #14
                            That's friggin sweet. I wish it could apply to more things like,

                            you: "Hey boss, I just has WILD sex last night...I didn't mean to, but the girls were just all over my--"

                            Boss: "Say no more! You're just going to have to skip work today. I'm sorry."

                            you: "Please don't think--"

                            Boss: "Look, what you did is fine. Now you need rest. In fact, I'm planning on taking a few days off next week as well...Have a nice day."

                            Best evur
                            Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                            • #15
                              While that is funny, it doesn't exactly happen like that. Coming from personal experience, I feel like a complete ass when I tell my gf "sorry, I just did Iron Palm..." or "Sorry, I have to go do Iron Palm..." or "Sorry we already did it this week.", she doesn't like it. I also feel like shite if I skip a day. I feel even worse when I skip an entire week because I'm on vacation. I literally feel awful when I have too much sex. My stomache feels like its tearing itself apart. Gong-fu is called gong-fu for a reason. It's hard work, determination, and discipline.
                              "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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