Barefoot zen

[Bungle]

Hi
Any of you guys re ad "Barefoot zen"? I'm currently reading it, i think it's awesome. Such a unique and refreshing view on everything. It really makes sense and i can understand his point of view completely. It definately makes you take a step back and re-think everything you understood about the martial arts. I've gotta say, so far, its one of the best books i've read.

I can imagine some people not liking it because of its complete turn around view on martial arts and some people are obvously very attached to their current way of thinking; especially if they have devoted years to its practice. Even so, its worth a read and some thought. What do you guys think?

[juszczec]

Re: Barefoot zen

Originally posted by Bungle
Hi
Any of you guys re ad "Barefoot zen"? I'm currently reading it, i think it's awesome. Such a unique and refreshing view on everything. It really makes sense and i can understand his point of view completely. It definately makes you take a step back and re-think everything you understood about the martial arts. I've gotta say, so far, its one of the best books i've read.

I can imagine some people not liking it because of its complete turn around view on martial arts and some people are obvously very attached to their current way of thinking; especially if they have devoted years to its practice. Even so, its worth a read and some thought. What do you guys think?

I think the author has some interesting ideas but goes to extreme lengths to prove them. I've worked thru some of the applications of his Tekki or Naifunchin, whatever he calls them, and didn't like them. Perhaps it was me, perhaps it was my partner or maybe his applications don't hold up. I don't know.

I'm not giving up on the ideas in the book entirely. But I'm not as impressed by it as when I read the reviews or saw his website.

Will get back to it again someday.


Mark

[Bungle]

Well, i haven't read his reasoning behind using the forms he uses yet but i'm sure he's tested them thoroughly. Besides, his ideas are brilliant! It makes so much sense to me. The idea of sticky hands and what it represents. The idea of not striking...It all just makes sense. He does stress also that the forms are specifically for meditative work and the side benefits are just that so it really isn't that important. Treat the cause not the symptoms of the self defence needs..Makes sense!

[dave]

sticky hands in karate?

dave

[juszczec]

Originally posted by Bungle
[B]Well, i haven't read his reasoning behind using the forms he uses yet but i'm sure he's tested them thoroughly. Besides, his ideas are brilliant! It makes so much sense to me. The idea of sticky hands and what it represents.

His ideas are definitely unique, and I'm all in favor of original thought
There too little in the world and way too little in MA.

The idea of not striking...It all just makes sense. He does stress also that the forms are specifically for meditative work and the side benefits are just that so it really isn't that important. Treat the cause not the symptoms of the self defence needs..Makes sense!

And this is where I disagree with him. Karate is, among other things, a method of striking. So is kung fu. I don't think some ancient created a method of moving meditation that just happened to be full of strikes, locks, sweeps, throws and so on.

I'm not sure what you mean by treating the cause not the symptoms of needing self defense.

But, if it means meditation will make you less likely to do violence against others - well maybe, if you are self motivated enough. In the same way prayer might make you a better person if you are self motivated enough.
But I think most folks willing to do harm to others won't be helped by meditation or prayer.

Personally, I think meditative training was grafted onto the MA when folks realized the body worked better if you got the conscious mind to shut up.

BTW, I do think sticky hands training is something karate folks would benefit from doing. But only at the level of being able to sense what their opponent is doing once they've made contact.

Mark

[dave]

BTW, I do think sticky hands training is something karate folks would benefit from doing. But only at the level of being able to sense what their opponent is doing once they've made contact.

What else is it for apart from freeing your mind?

Also i have seen some goju "kaike" which is their pushing hands training, but it seems more conditioning than sensitivity? Compared to say wing chun or taijiquan or southern mantis anyway?

dave

[Bungle]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I agree with the author i think, it feels right. I believe people mistakingly took the shaolin empty hand art as a fighting system and added strikes later. It makes sense, a monk would never strike anyone.... I guess we'll never know for sure; sounds and feels right to me. Every last drop of it makes sense.

It's weird, sometimes i read stuff and it feels right, like i've thought of it before and now i'm only becoming aware of it. I get this from certain books on zen. funnily, i never had this feeling with any of Wong Kiew Kits books. I guess like a lot of spiritual gurus will tell you; you follow your own path, follow your intuition.

Thanks for the replies, i just really wondered if anyone else liked the book...

[dave]

why would a monk NOT hit someone if they had to? How else would they defend the south from pirates or rescue the emperor that was captured? how else would they defend the Temple against a maurading group of bandits hell bent on a) destrying the tenmple and/or killing people?

dave

[juszczec]

Originally posted by dave
What else is it for apart from freeing your mind?

Since I know nothing about sticky hands training, I don't know what any of the benefits are. Aside from the obvious one.

That's what I meant by my comment.

Mark