Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Basically non chinese speaking newbie

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Basically non chinese speaking newbie

    Hey guys, I've never posted b4 so sorry if this has all been covered. I should probably give a little history so you understand where i'm coming from... I train under a guy called martin lindgreen in this pissant little country called new zealand that none of you have probably heard of. He's a good teacher, but i'm kinda skeptical i'm getting everything i can (i know i'm being a bit optimistic here but) out of kung fu. I've been going for about 9 months and in my club i'm one of the better sparrers, and my forms are pretty good, but i fear that a lot of the time we're getting taught the self defense aspects and not the forms, or any of the chi. We have 5 animal (monkey,snake,tiger,crane,dragon) forms in our club, thats basically it, plus a couple of others my sigong knows. All our lessons are in english obviously, but when i read a lot of kungfu sites i see ppl talking about stances like ma bu and i have no idea what they're talking about. We have several main ones: horse stance, tiger stance which is front leg bent 90degrees back leg straight, back stance which i've seen called empty stance, reverse stance which is like a reverse tiger but lower, and twist stance which is back shin parrallel with the floor knee bent, knees together, front foot turned out. If anyone has any sites or books or whatever where i could find any good information at all, i'd be really grateful

  • #2
    cool, one of my Sigongs students teaches our style of Qigong in New Zealand... its called "wild goose qigong"

    Mabu is the horse stance. Ma=horse and Bu=stance. Another stance sometimes called forward stance is called Gong Bu. Gong=Bow (as in bow and arrow) and Bu=stance, the same as before. Gong Bu is the same as your tiger stance by the sound of it.

    Interesting combination of animals... most of the schools i know teach tiger, drasgon, snake, crane and LEPOARD, not the monkey - kinda cool

    good luck,
    dave
    simple and natural is my method,
    true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

    Comment


    • #3
      this site has some of the basic hung gar/southern stances in it



      some more terminology here but still no chinese names



      i dont do shaolin so our terms may be different, so im sure some of the other guys could help you.

      dave
      simple and natural is my method,
      true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

      Comment


      • #4
        In my humble opinion the best book I've ever read about gungfu was Bruce Lee's Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Read it. The philosophy is inspiring the excercises are good and the wisdom expressed therein is profound.

        As for Qi. I highly suggest you look into the guy Dave mentioned. I practice various styles of qigong with primary emphasis on medical qigong and secondary on martial qigong. In my vastly uninformed opinion, Dave knows more about serious, down right productive, martial qigong than anyone else I've ever met. Which means he has good teachers. With the possible exception of one particular praying mantis practitioner. But I'm rambling right now, the point is, if you can find a sifu to teach you good qigong, treasure that teacher. Learn everything you can. And whatever the hell you decide to do, live dammit. I hear New Zealand is a great country. Pristine wilderness is an incredible rarity in this world. Cherish your environment. I've learned more about gungfu by meditating with trees and letting the wind buffet me around than I ever have from a single man. But that aside, find good sifus and learn everything you can from them.
        Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

        Comment


        • #5
          To help you with things, there are two different primary romanization systems of mandarin and the other chinese dialects. The one used by the peoples republic is the pinyin system.

          Western Pinyin
          Chi Kung Qi gong
          Tai Chi Chuan Taijiquan
          etc etc etc. sorry I'm drunk, It's spring weekend at my school. Translation: there are 8 apartments in my house and more than 22 kegs in those apartments for tonight only. God bless UConn. Its a good weekend to practice 8 immortals hung gar drunken boxing.
          Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

          Comment


          • #6
            daodejing: thanks for the compliment mate, but ive only been training for 2 1/2 years and dont know much Just what i have remembered form being taught by my sifu and my own observation from practising.

            chris:the wild goose qigong is not martial, but its a very good system for health and flexibility. if you are interested in it then private message me and i can pass you the contact details

            As far as NZ - it loks amazing! wish i could visit there someday. Hopefully i will as im also visiting Australia soon.

            What specific Chinese is it you are wanting to know? If you tell us in English, maybe someone can help with the Chinese part? Also which system do you train? If its northern or southern means it will likely be Mandarin or Cantonese, which further clouds things.

            Also, as far as "Chi" goes, its just energy form your intention and focus, as well as correct technique. Just keep practising the form to get as good as you can and things take care of themselves.

            dave
            simple and natural is my method,
            true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Basically non chinese speaking newbie

              Originally posted by Chris
              He's a good teacher, but i'm kinda skeptical i'm getting everything i can (i know i'm being a bit optimistic here but) out of kung fu. I've been going for about 9 months and in my club i'm one of the better sparrers, and my forms are pretty good, but i fear that a lot of the time we're getting taught the self defense aspects and not the forms, or any of the chi. We have 5 animal (monkey,snake,tiger,crane,dragon) forms in our club, thats basically it, plus a couple of others my sigong knows.

              Wait a minute, I know where New Zealand is.

              Now, I'm the karate guy they let in on the forum - acutally, they've never asked me to leave But I'm going to try and answer your questions anyway.

              First of all, what do you want out of your training?

              IMO, learning a small number of forms is a good thing. It allows you to learn and practice their self defense principles in depth as opposed to having a superficial knowledge of many.

              Chi - now there is a tricky subject. I don't think you should worry about chi. While I won't rule out its existence, I don't think its something most folks (me included) should concern themselves with.

              I think one use of "chi" in MA was as a way for the untrained people to explain the seemingly miraculous skills of the highly trained. I won't rule out its existence, becuase there are plenty of things we don't know about the body. But, if chi does exist, I don't think everyone has an equal ability to develop it and use it. Why? Look at how few people can use it. Look at how few people can help you train it.

              If you are interested in good health or self defense, there are other methods that are easier to get instruction in and have shown to be useful to large numbers of people, not just those who have a physiology predisposed to developing/using chi.

              Mark
              Karate/Jujutsu at Akron Shaw JCC

              Comment


              • #8
                Chi - now there is a tricky subject. I don't think you should worry about chi. While I won't rule out its existence, I don't think its something most folks (me included) should concern themselves with. I think one use of "chi" in MA was as a way for the untrained people to explain the seemingly miraculous skills....

                Woah there Mark. There's nothing mystical or special about chi. There're always people arguing about the existence of chi. It's pointless. Chi quite simply is a life force - what makes us move, what makes things grow? It's been a widely accepted concept over many different civilisations. You gotta admit that you have some sort of force that gives you life. If you don't like the term 'chi', then by all means make up your own word - but the energy is still there. If you're going to consider chi mystical, then you better start treating your breathing, the fact you can move your little finger and the growth of a plant mysticism as well. Miraculous it is, but not in the context that we are using.

                It's possible through certain exercises to cultivate and channel this energy to aid your health. Simple as that. Owing to the large number of cretins out there who attribute abnormal mystical powers to it, and the fact that one can perform seemingly amazing feats with it - which no longer appear to be amazing once one starts to train in it - the concept of chi has been warped and shrouded in mystery. Simply speaking, practice chigong for several years and the results will be evident. You won't be able to walk on water or shoot pretty chi balls, it's the morons who keep pushing that crap onto people that makes the general public dubious about all this. Chi is simple. Practice Iron Shirt for ten years and you can repel incredible blows. What's so mystical about that? It’s physiology. So from a martial point of view, and looking at it realistically, it most certainly is worth concerning yourself with it if you are interested in achieving the most from your training.

                Chi is NOT a tricky subject. It couldn't be more simple. It's just widely misunderstood.


                I don't think everyone has an equal ability to develop it and use it. Why? Look at how few people can use it. Look at how few people can help you train it.
                Could you explain what you mean by that? A lot of people can’t use it because they don’t train in it. And there aren’t loads of people out there who can teach it, so of course that’s going to reflect on how many people train it.


                Peace

                David
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow, replies, replies and more replies, cheers you guys. well, as to the chinese bit,we VERY rarely use it aside from "hai". I have been learning (very slowly) mandarin, only pinyin, and should be starting on characters soon. The chinese at my club is cantonese, but for some reason i prefer the sound of mandarin, and i figure if i ever meet a contonese speaking psn i can just get them to write it out . As to the monkey form, yeah it's a good one, incredibly gymnastic, and we do do a strike called "leopard paw" which is a scraping strike which uses the first set of knuckles outside of the fist and generally to the armpit. I would really like to learn leopard form though.

                  juszczec: i know what you mean about the forms, it's just that is really all we are offered, 5

                  Lipster: love that definition of chi, thanks

                  I've just now thought of another question. People talk about "shaolin kung-fu" as if it's a different thing, and also "wushu" as if it's the same. I've read and heard so many different arguments in both ways is there ever a consensus anywhere??


                  Oh yeah, and as to new zealand, it is a really cool country, i was just kinda annoyed after looking at all the seminars and stuff offered in america and canada and europe and everywhere else. I would highly recommend coming here, the air's clean, the water's mostly clean, you ain't often gonna get mugged (and when you do it can be funny how little experience the large guy in front of you has with hiding one of the more sensitive parts of his anatomy) and there is a lot of space to get away from it all for only a 30minute drive or so, which is apparently pretty damn uncommmon. Dave: australia's pretty similar, the ppl are just a little more ... interesting (just don't let my g/f read this post )


                  Chris
                  Last edited by Chris; 04-27-2003, 12:52 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok 2 minutes later and i thought of another couple of questions.


                    Are foreigners allowed to train inside the grounds of the shaolin monastry or is the doc tour just at that training centre i've forgotten the name of. I know that a sifu and another student at my club trained at shaolin but i'm not sure if that was town or monastry.

                    Also, if anyone knows anything about specific metals, materials or cutting techniques used in manufacturing of chinese broadswords, machetes, sabres and the like could they just chuck a post up or message me.

                    Chris

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      New Zealand looks like a beautiful country. The scenery in Lord of the Rings...


                      Chris, this is probably the most common question on any MA forum. I dunno why you've heard so many conflicting definitions of wushu and kung fu. I think it's generally agreed upon that [Shaolin] kung fu/gong fu is the genuine, untampered traditional GF that has been passed down from previous generations. In a traditional form virtually every movement has a martial application, if one is aware of it, although to my knowledge in several of the more advanced forms there are some movements taken from Buddhist ceremonies. But that's pretty irrelevant. Contemporary Wushu originated from traditional forms but some of the applications and movements were removed, exaggerated and added to make it less harmful and more importantly, more pretty. Since wushu is primarily a performing art. This by no means indicates that wushu cannot be used for fighting at all, a kick is still a kick. Whether you can fight is dependant on whether you practice fighting/spar, be that with a Wushu or Traditional student.

                      I don't think anyone, especially foreigners, train at the Shaolin Temple itself, just the surrounding schools.



                      That's it in a nutshell, for a little more detail:

                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The steel generally used in the local Shaolin factory for swords is pretty cheap, but you can get some nice pieces there.

                        There is some training going on within the temple itself now; it's no different than training that goes on at the local schools. Yongxin has been making some changes with regards to gong fu in the temple; read some of my Shaolin Journals in the Archive, from my trip in November. In my opinion, the best place to train is in the mountains surrounding Shaolin. That's where I go. That's where the monks of yore went. It's quiet, peaceful, and beautiful. You can feel the qi.

                        Got any good churches down in New Zealand? Just curious....

                        doc
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lipster001
                          Woah there Mark. There's nothing mystical or special about chi. There're always people arguing about the existence of chi. It's pointless. Chi quite simply is a life force - what makes us move, what makes things grow? It's been a widely accepted concept over many different civilisations. You gotta admit that you have some sort of force that gives you life. If you don't like the term 'chi', then by all means make up your own word - but the energy is still there. If you're going to consider chi mystical, then you better start treating your breathing, the fact you can move your little finger and the growth of a plant mysticism as well. Miraculous it is, but not in the context that we are using.
                          I'm not arguing against its existence. I am arguing against people who use chi to misguide others into thinking "Here is a MASTER from whom I will learn something miraculous if I fork over enough $$$$." Or those who use it to cover up their own poor teaching ability "You got beat up, not because I didn't teach you properly, but because you didn't have enough chi." Or those who stop questioning the answers when they are told "Because its from chi."

                          And its also why I caution MA beginners who may have seen too many movies or been lied to by a dishonest teacher.

                          It's possible through certain exercises to cultivate and channel this energy to aid your health. Simple as that. Owing to the large number of cretins out there who attribute abnormal mystical powers to it, and the fact that one can perform seemingly amazing feats with it - which no longer appear to be amazing once one starts to train in it - the concept of chi has been warped and shrouded in mystery. Simply speaking, practice chigong for several years and the results will be evident. You won't be able to walk on water or shoot pretty chi balls, it's the morons who keep pushing that crap onto people that makes the general public dubious about all this. Chi is simple. Practice Iron Shirt for ten years and you can repel incredible blows. What's so mystical about that? It’s physiology.
                          I've long suspected it is simple and explainable. I've been looking for a way to create a non mystical definition of it for a few months. So, please tell me about the physiologic aspects of chi and which exercises help it develop.

                          Could you explain what you mean by that? A lot of people can’t use it because they don’t train in it. And there aren’t loads of people out there who can teach it, so of course that’s going to reflect on how many people train it.
                          Some people have the innate ability to excel at things others can't. The first time my brother ran a mile, he did it in 6 minutes flat. He now runs sub 6 minute miles as a matter of course. The fastest I've ever run a mile was 5 minutes, 59 seconds Once and never again And that was after 8 years of running

                          I'll bet Doc, our fearless founder, can absorb large amounts of information (like what they give you in medical school) that would kill any of us.

                          I see no reason chi couldn't work the same way. Everyone has it, but not everyone has an equal ability to develop it or use it. I think that is one of reasons the Chinese government hasn't created an army of chi enhanced athletes or soldiers. Or why you can't look in the phone book under Chi Development and find page after page of honest businesspeople.

                          Mark
                          Karate/Jujutsu at Akron Shaw JCC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You should see the things your "fearless founder" can absorb...
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              hey Chris - some good info posted after me

                              just wanted to say - pinyin is cool... but the writing IS a bit different. Most of China use the standardized so called "simplified" method of writing, and as far as i know, S. China (especially Guangdong), HK and most other places with an outside Chinese population use the "traditional" format of writing. There is a difference which is confusing Even something simple such as "Ma Bu" (horse stance), the Horse looks very different.

                              just some of my own experiences,
                              dave
                              simple and natural is my method,
                              true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X