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My insano story (Yan Ming and USAST)

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  • My insano story (Yan Ming and USAST)

    For a while I've been debating whether or not to post an event, well series of events, that happened to me while Training at USAST....

    I've bounced bakc and forth on the idea... thinking on the one hadn it might be best to jsut let the whole issue go while on the other hand it was pretty messed up and people have a right to know.... But based off that I thought well which people should have a right no know? and if I'm jsut telling random people on the internet do I then look like a crazy ranting lunatic?

    Still, I think alot of people are curious as to the goings on there beyond the outer layer that is thrown up.... Beyond the books and the press down to the inside... While I'll admit I haven't the foggiest idea as to what goes down on the very deepest levels of management or what exactly is going through peoples minds there.... I can say certain thigns with come level of certainty as I have seen them...

    In my 3.5 years training there I've seen some incredibly good things and some extremely bad things.... The worst incident to my moemoy actually directly involved me.... So sit back and let me tell you a tale.... well, I'm not exactly telling you, yours just reading what I wrote but stilll...

    Few weeks ago... monday night...

    Training was hot as hell in the temple... new rule to wear only
    orange robes for level 2... Mind you they are heavy material and after you sweat a bit do nothing to release heat... infact seems like it jsut traps heat after that...
    Had already led demo class and was
    worn out... class came along and was feeling a little hot.. So, I
    decided to drop to the back of line and just take it easy.... Did
    like 2 kicks per pass... Shifu was there and another student was leading
    class... they were yelling like always to move faster and what not
    but I wasn't listening...

    At some point during class Shifu decided to go to the back and do
    something.... I don't know why but he closed the curtain that seperates the front and back when he
    went back... I remember thinking this is a bad idea... Cut what
    little air flow there was to nothing... As soon as he did that I
    started feeling ill... I went to the window to get some fresh air
    ..

    When i got there I was so over heated I collapsed and started
    convulsing on the floor... Couldn't breath... temperature was most
    likely well over 100... to the dangerous levels... Straight up
    heat stroke... Nearly died on the spot....

    The response was something I'll never forget... I had lost
    consciousness after hitting the floor during the seizure... Was
    having this odd dream thinking am I gonna die? Someone threw some
    water on me... People tell me it was shifu which was good... After
    that I was slightly more awake shifu just said He's fine its just
    the heat and I need to eat more beef... he said don't worry
    continue training... At this point I needed an ambulance... but
    hey what are ya gonna do...

    Anyways people went on training and kinda left me there... After a
    few minutes my breathing became erratic again and my heart was
    beating uncontrollably... Worst pain I've ever felt in my life...
    I felt myself losing consciousness again... my last thought before
    that was I am going to die right now....this is it I'm dead...
    then lights out....

    I'm not exactly sure why but I eventually woke up again... To much
    surprise I wasn't dead... mind this this was good news for me..
    but I couldn't help wondering why they just left me here and
    didn't call for an ambulance or anything...

    Took me a week to recover ... Had slight muscle and kidney
    damage and was fully traumatized from the event... trouble
    sleeping nightmares bouts of depression and panic at random times
    during the day.. truly horrible...

    So, after a week I was feeling good enough to go back and talk to
    the big man and find out what exactly went wrong... the
    conversation with him was nothing like I expected...

    First he was mad at me that I didn't make an appointment to speak
    to him saying I can't jsut walk in and talk to him whenever I
    wanted.... Then he was mad at me for a host of other issues... I
    didn't go to a book signing for his new book, I wasn't happy enough with his
    recent fame, I was upset about the new uniform rule.... He said
    he knew i was saying things that were critical of temple or him...
    meaning people I would talk to about things would like go and
    report if I said anything negative... Some weird gestapo crap...
    if you ask me...

    I told him all that has nothing to do with what happened to me
    monday... He was mad I was mad... and said I was fine and you
    never need an ambulance... and that I just don't understand
    myself... Then he told me I was negative about everything and a
    negative influence on all the people there and he was going to
    suspend me for a while.... He said when I figure it out and want
    to come back to call and talk to him first...

    Since then I've talked to several people and most jump down my
    throat saying he did no wrong and there was some hidden meaning to
    his actions... its all my fault... lets see what else... there
    was no fault was just different perspectives of what happened..
    And some other equally strange things...

    Of all the people there that night only 1 person apologized for not
    doing more... one person tried but it didn't work.... a few have
    out right tried to avoid talking to me... and others just avoid
    the issue...

    Still others have tried to change the story of what happened... saying I wasn't shaking on the floor and was only resting quitely on my own....

    Brotherhood, understanding, compassion..... I don't see it...

    I never expected everyone there to be saints that could do no wrong... Though I did expect them to have my back in the event of a critical medical emergency.... Funny but one guy told me "If you fall I got your back man" just a few days before... though that night he was oddly busy at the time I guess... But like I said I never expected them to be perfect.... Still, it says something profound I think...

    The reactions since then have smacked of a cut like atmosphere... people thinking there must be something else to it... aside from that people NEED there to be something else to it.... Doesn't matter what actually happened that night... the very idea is opposite of their built of views of the temple and their master.... In this respecct it borders religious fanaticism.... just like you could never convince a born again christain evolution is true.... even if you show them the fossil records... there will always be denial there...

    Theres a fine line, I think, between devotion and loyalty and being a full blown cult....

    Since then I've moved on and joined a new school... Alot more laid back which better instruction actually... yan Ming may be a very good martial artist but hes a sucky teacher....

    And In closing..... No one would object if I came on and posted a story that paints a rossy picture of the place... saying its all sunshine and rainbows.... Unfortunatly it isn't true....

    I think one should try to udnerstand the good and bad aspects of all thigns and feel free to openly discuss both.... I was scolded for even thinking critical things and booted because of it.... I guess yesmen are always more appealing... But how are you to learn anything if the answer is always yes? or more to the point when you can not say critical things....

    I made a girl cry once before a demo because I told her to "work on your staff form to make it sharp, I noticed you struggling with it the other day.... so, practice that alot today so it can really cook"

    Ah wells..... I'm tired of typing now.... ask questions make comments say whatever.... say good thigns say bad things I dont care....

    Its all good to me...
    The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

  • #2
    Another satisfied customer!

    This story sounds strangely familiar.

    One time in level 2 class this guys shoulder popped out. It was totally dislocated. He dropped rolling on the floor screaming in pain. Right in the middle of a hardcore level 2 class. He wasn't acting.

    Anyway we all panicked and had someone call Sifu. Sifu was actually annoyed that we called him at home. He then straight up said he wasn't going to come down. I couldn't believe it.

    Needless to say that guy doesn't train there anymore. Nor does 95% of the people who witnessed it.

    The bottom line is everyone that trains there is devoted. They in many cases are seeking discipline. I was. But when certain situations come up and it is clear he doesn't care about you or your kungfu development, it is a huge let down.

    That is why I posted so much about him. I want the truth to be told. These devoted students shouldn't have to feel let down and adandoned for something that in many cases they devote their lives to.

    I have other tales where we were ignored when we called him about something. If it was one of his celeb friends he would have had him over for some special water training. Me I just here in a very uninterested tone from Sophia "we don't take student calls at home". I think that says it all.

    Comment


    • #3
      Talk to an attorney, find out if you can sue. SYM can trot out all the waivers he wants but a MA teacher must assume at least some legal responsibility for the health of his students while they're in his class. To just leave you there while you're passed out is obviously negligent.

      Of course, I don't know when this happened or what the law is like in NY for this sort of thing. And it doesn't seem like you sustained permanent damage so a lawyer might not want to touch it, given the various degrees of trouble it could stir up. But at least talk to someone, find out what your options are. Even if there's no recovery you can call attention to it and maybe prevent someone else from going through what you did.

      Comment


      • #4
        My parents kept suggesting talking to their lawyer.... I'm not sure I wanna go there... nothing but legal trouble I can imagine....
        The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

        Comment


        • #5
          It won't hurt to TALK to a lawyer. Plus, the longer you wait, the less physical evidence there is...
          Becoming what I've dreamed about.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, there are a few issues here.

            The orange robes are a bitch to train in. They're polyester, they trap the heat, and they're just the worst things to wear during heavy exercise. Hate to say it, but they're not used in Shaolin for training. Yanming probably makes his students wear them to keep the whole "appearance" thing going; something that he, in my opinion, has to rely upon. The facade will crumble one day.

            Heat exhaustion is a dangerous thing; people do die from it on a fairly regular basis. The news is replete with episodes of young people, in baseball camps, JD centers, and other things (most recently some outdoor wilderness experience in Utah). It's common, and it's usually accompanied by the leader's absolute ignorance and stupidity. Major lawsuits do evolve from this ignorance, as they should. The loss of some 13 year old's life because they're trying to train him to survive in 120 degree heat without water for a few days, is just truly ****ing stupid. Yanming's response in your story, in my opinion, is also truly ****ing stupid, and is something that I would expect from an individiual of his background. Sorry, but again, you don't see this behavior in Shaolin. Had Yanming actually spent any significant time in Shaolin, he would have probably understood better. But, as I've heard from many in the know, the lie that I've been told he's living is something that he has to continue promoting; doing so with such ignorant actions, which have no basis in genuine temple training, and are fabrications of his imagination, is one way of continuing with this money making facade.

            Seizure activity with heat exhaustion is a serious thing, and it is usually accompanied by the more serious form, called heat stroke. In this situation, the body temperature is over 103, 104, and the brain is seriously overheated, which results in seizure activity. Most patients at this point are not concious to be aware of the seizure activity. Cerebral temperatures can continue to elevate; death can occur after cerebral temperatures reach 104. Body temperatures of 108 have been recorded during these episodes. Other students who have witnessed this episode would be invaluable, though your testimony is enough to at least warrant further legal investigation. In my opinion, if you do not follow up on this, you are being negligent yourself, at least, in respect towards the other students, and future students, better welfare.

            You know, it really doesn't matter if this guy is a monk, a martial arts god, or some bullshitter that has created his life story and has gotten a whole bunch of ignorant people to believe it. What the reality is, doesn't matter. He's in America, and in America a teacher, or, the person responsible for one's center of business, needs to take responsibility for said business, and what happens therein. Suffering from heat exhaustion because of some person's ignorance occurs, and it is hard to ascribe fault to that. Failing to provide medical care to stave off further damage, especially when one lives in a major metropolis with emergency care readily available within minutes, is gross negligence, and evidence thereof, is just proof of the business owner's unacceptable level of ignorance.

            Gross negligence is unnecessary. But, what do you expect from individual's with second grade educations, if that. In my opinion, especially after my experiences with Xingwei, if these people want to live in America and enjoy the benefits thereof, they should be made to take part in the responsibiity of living here. Xingwei's gonna learn this one day; I think you should make Yanming understand it too.

            Before someone actually dies. You don't do it for yourself, you do it to help prevent further, and most probably, unavoidable, stupidity. I suggest that you seriously read the following, from an MSNBC article a few weeks ago.
            Buschow was on the second day of the $3,000 course and in a group of 12 with three staff members. The group was resting near a water source when one of the students noticed Buschow was unusually quiet, Bronson said.

            “All day Monday they were hiking in the heat with very little food or water,” Bronson said. “He was complaining about lack of water and cramping and still given very little water, and it was still hot.”

            Temperatures were in the low 90s in the area, the National Weather Service said.

            Artificial hardship conditions

            Bronson said students are intentionally given little food or water to simulate hardship conditions in the course, designed to teach primitive survival skills using limited tools.

            School representatives did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

            The school’s Web site says its field courses teach participants how to survive in wilderness with minimal food, water, clothing and gear. “Our goal is to take you from a world of convenience and comfort and put you in a situation where you must go ’just a little bit farther’ — past those false limits your mind has set for your body,” the site says.
            Buschow was found dead within feet of a fresh water source, surrounded by his fellow "students" and tour leaders.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


            Comment


            • #7
              Hmm the growing consensus seems to be talk to a lawyer... maybe I should if only to get his opinion on the matter... hell maybe in the very least I can get my money back for the month i didn't train... ha

              Seems like wearing orange robes is nice and good for ceremonies but totally pointless in training... what the hell does it matter what I wear while working out?? When I first started there I put such issues as its all about making money aside... But one can't help but notice sometimes.... Required to wear robes during training and bring more than one so you can change half way through.....

              I remember back to when national geographic came to town to film... Shifu made an anouncement that EVERYONE had to come to filming one day and they should take off work or whatever to be tehre....which was ballsy enough in my book... Then he told everoyne they HAD TO wear blue robes only... for those of us without blue robes we asked what to do he said buy new robes.... to which I replied I dont have $80 right now... to which he said take a robe now and pay me later... which was also something I couldnt do...

              Same story recently when he required orange robes only to training in the advanced class.... if you dont have one have to buy one... I know a girl that straight up left just because she didn't have the money.... she is training where I started now... a total coinidence...

              You know how hard I tried to explain to everyone there the seriousness of heat stroke but no one would listen... Part of me thought the only way he would open his ****ing eyes would be in legal action was threatened... maybe its true... When I went to talk to him a week after the fact I had already decided never to train there again... But I was worried if might happen to someone else and wanted to talk to him to make sure steps were taken to ensure it did not.... But my words fell on deaf eyes...

              Doc did you change the name of the thread?
              The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, I do solely for the purpose of making the forum more user friendly. Remember, few people post here; many read. If the titles are not relevant, then people cannot find the information that they may be looking for. Consider it "my job" as the super admin.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey its all good man.... I wasn't sure what to title it honestly....

                  I was just breezing around nyc adgency sites... I figure they must be violating some health codes in that place... maybe theres a way to report it... honestly dont know where to look though.
                  The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What can i say. Mr. Iron Cross, i really think that moral virtue is not something that the monks have. They have the kungfu, but not of what deserves to call them Sifu.

                    Who and where are the good ones? The De generation?

                    In USA people have the money to sue, if you can do it, do it. But you can also publish you story in a newspaper or in more sites like this one. Word will spread.

                    I will spread your word here in Mexico. If your give me your permission, i can post your words in other forums as well.

                    Take care.
                    Hector Villarruel
                    Guadalajara, Jalisco
                    Mexico

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I was just breezing around nyc adgency sites... I figure they must be violating some health codes in that place... maybe theres a way to report it... honestly dont know where to look though.
                      A lawyer would.


                      In USA people have the money to sue, if you can do it, do it.
                      It most likely won't cost you anything to sue, unless there's some weird NY law I don't know about. The way it usually works is that the lawyer just takes their fee and reimburses their legal expenses out of whatever recovery there is (settlement or court award).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks zachsan, so Heng Yi, sue him. But it is better what you are doing right now. Now when someone ask me about Yan Ming, i will tell your story Heng Yi.

                        I agree he is a great performer, but he is not a SiFu, he is more like a coach. He does not have the moral to be called Master.

                        Ok, but now....who can you trust?
                        Hector Villarruel
                        Guadalajara, Jalisco
                        Mexico

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've thrown up my story on another martial arts forum... shaolinwolf.com....

                          At this point it does seem important to get the word out so to speak before it is lost to history and mis-tellings...

                          I give you full permission to tell whoever you want... but try to keep the the facts...

                          Mexico is a beautiful country... I had the privelage of going there for a week at Yan Ming request to teach at his school in Cuernavaca... think I spelled that right...

                          but your right... I think Yan Ming lacks the humility and compassion to be considered a master of anything... take away those qualities and all you ahve is fast muscles ... since when is that a requirement for mastery?
                          The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You might want to read this carefully; it's very relevant for martial artists of all ages.

                            Specifically, as it's a bit complicated, read the parts about Exertional Heat Stroke, Morbidity and Mortality, Medical Legal Pitfalls.... Read the whole thing if you have the time. It's for physicians, but, it's a relatively easy read.



                            If there's any questions, feel free to ask in the Doc's Hospital thread.
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Heng Yi!!.

                              Your words are in other Forum. People from Mexico post regulary there. I already told a friend of mine that is close to the mexican school of Yan Ming of your story.

                              Here is the link:



                              Hector Villarruel
                              Guadalajara, Jalisco
                              Mexico

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