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  • General questions about training in Shaolin

    Dear Doc,

    I have been interested in the martial arts for quite a long time. I haven't had the opportunity to train until recently, and now interest has turned into love. At the moment I am training wing chun in a small group of people. I've always had this dream of going to china to train martial arts under some mystical old man in the mountains but I never really saw it actually coming to life. First of all because I had'nt actually even had a taste of martial arts and second of all because I thought that either I would never find one of those mystical old men or that they didn't even exist like that anymore. After reading Polly's article i realized that there is at least a small possibility of living my dream. So I can finally get to the questions.

    First of all, I was wondering where, and how you trained. Polly's article said the Shaolin Temple but it was my understanding that, being a temple, only monks trained there. So I thought that in order to train with them you would have to become a monk yourself. The article seems to imply that you and Poly trained under a martial arts "coach" on the temple grounds and around the historical landmarks. This is pretty damn close to my dream as long as the coaches are traditional, and good teachers, however grueling they may teach. So I was just wondering if I understood correctly about the coaches. Also It didn't say how often you trained. Was it every day? Was it every other day? How often?

    Then theres the issue of my own training. If there are martial arts masters living near or in the temple, first of all, how hard are they to find? Second of all how hard are they to accept students? In regards to accepting students, I will be 18 in june. In the movies it's always some kid training from the age of 5, so I'm worried that by the time I get to china, I will be too old for any good master to accept or train me. Either that or they are expecting some level of proficiency from a student of my age, and although I'm training with my heart right now I can't make up for 15 years of no training. I do know however that I am willing to dedicate a larger portion of my life to nothing but martial arts and I'm not sure how many adults are willing to do that. So my question basically is, is it possible that I can find a good master who will be willing to train me?

    So now to get a little further away from just a dream and closer to reality theres the issue of money. The stereotypical image of a master is some guy who makes you suffer before he decides to teach you, but does it for free. I would be willing to sit outside the temple for years if I had the opportunity to train for free under true masters but I doubt that it's like that anymore. So do masters charge, and if so how much? Regardless of the masters fee I also have to eat. Polly's article said he was there for two years but it didn't say anything about where he stayed or how he ate. What I had in mind was getting a part time job and dedicating the majority of my time to training. Kinda like college. My dream is living in the mountains and training day and night for years, but money complicates things so I'll be happy with as close as I can get. So the question is, is it possible to train at the temple and get by (however poorly) by making your own living?

    Finally there's the issue of preparation. If the answers to the above questions are all as I hope they will be and everything is as close to my dream as it will ever get, there's still things that I will have to do. My plan is a little less childish than it probably sounds because I plan to get an education first. I was thinking of getting a bachelors in maybe computer science (or w/e) as a back up plan and also to at least be educated. Studying also gives me the opportunity to first of all enjoy my life here in the US before I go off to live in the mountains, and second of all, prepare for the trip. By preparations I imagined 1st of all learning conversational chinese, and 2nd of all getting into the best shape I can on my own. So is there anything else I should be doing until then? Also there's the issue of age. I'm worried that (in martial arts initiate standards) I'm too old as it is, let alone after I learn chinese and get my bachelors. I was thinking I'd probably be around 23 - 25. The extra years being for learning chinese.

    If theres any section or thread in your website that answers any of the above questions a link to is would be just as good as an answer in the e-mail. But I'd appreciate as many answers as you could offer since there's not a lot of people who can answer these questions. Thanks a lot for your time.

    xxxxx
    Anyone want to answer this??
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com



  • #2
    Doc,


    I will give it a shot here. Let me know if I wandered off the page...


    here we go


    Well I haven’t read Pollys (Doc could you point me to it?) article but I think I can shed some light on this one. However, bear in mind a few things:

    1. I do not want to ruin your dream. Cherish Dreams for the whole liefe.
    2. Its meant as a realistic view on what is and what not.

    /////////////////////////////////////////Your comment////////////////////////////////
    I have been interested in the martial arts for quite a long time. I haven't had the opportunity to train until recently, and now interest has turned into love. At the moment I am training wing chun in a small group of people. I've always had this dream of going to china to train martial arts under some mystical old man in the mountains but I never really saw it actually coming to life. First of all because I had'nt actually even had a taste of martial arts and second of all because I thought that either I would never find one of those mystical old men or that they didn't even exist like that anymore. After reading Polly's article i realized that there is at least a small possibility of living my dream. So I can finally get to the questions.
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    You don’t necessarily need an old man, but they do exist. I trained with a few such as Shi Wang Heng and Xing Fa. However, Xing Fa died in 1979. Shi Wang Heng is in Austria now. Now what you want to is looking for is someone who was trained by the old men, because a lot of the younger ones don’t even know a lot of the traditional stuff anymore.


    /////////////////////////////////////////Your comment////////////////////////////////
    First of all, I was wondering where, and how you trained. Polly's article said the Shaolin Temple but it was my understanding that, being a temple, only monks trained there. So I thought that in order to train with them you would have to become a monk yourself.

    The article seems to imply that you and Poly trained under a martial arts "coach" on the temple grounds and around the historical landmarks. This is pretty damn close to my dream as long as the coaches are traditional, and good teachers, however grueling they may teach. So I was just wondering if I understood correctly about the coaches. Also It didn't say how often you trained. Was it every day? Was it every other day? How often?
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    You do not have to become a monk to train on the temple grounds. That was done "unofficially" rather often. However, these days things have changed. Additionally a number of monks also had schools right outside the temple prior to the cleanup by the new Abbot starting in 2002. As stated, the coach approach is very good. However, finding a good coach today is a challenge and it has become more and more commercial. Additionally, the training these days is for Westerners quite different versus the locals.

    /////////////////////////////////////////Your comment////////////////////////////////
    Then theres the issue of my own training. If there are martial arts masters living near or in the temple, first of all, how hard are they to find? Second of all how hard are they to accept students? In regards to accepting students, I will be 18 in june. In the movies it's always some kid training from the age of 5, so I'm worried that by the time I get to china, I will be too old for any good master to accept or train me. Either that or they are expecting some level of proficiency from a student of my age, and although I'm training with my heart right now I can't make up for 15 years of no training. I do know however that I am willing to dedicate a larger portion of my life to nothing but martial arts and I'm not sure how many adults are willing to do that. So my question basically is, is it possible that I can find a good master who will be willing to train me?
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    First of all, you are never too old for martial arts. As for the 5 year old starting you have to understand that a number of families basically send their children to the temple so they survive and get an education, And martial arts is only one small part of the whole of becoming a monk. Myself as well as a few other people personally consider the martial arts aspect a by-product of studying Shaolin, no less no more.


    /////////////////////////////////////////Your comment////////////////////////////////
    So now to get a little further away from just a dream and closer to reality theres the issue of money. The stereotypical image of a master is some guy who makes you suffer before he decides to teach you, but does it for free. I would be willing to sit outside the temple for years if I had the opportunity to train for free under true masters but I doubt that it's like that anymore. So do masters charge, and if so how much? Regardless of the masters fee I also have to eat. Polly's article said he was there for two years but it didn't say anything about where he stayed or how he ate. What I had in mind was getting a part time job and dedicating the majority of my time to training. Kinda like college. My dream is living in the mountains and training day and night for years, but money complicates things so I'll be happy with as close as I can get. So the question is, is it possible to train at the temple and get by (however poorly) by making your own living?
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Seeing that you are only 18 now and even if you completed your study and you are 23 or 25 and unless you are independently wealthy, I have to burst this bubble for you. Student loans also play a role here for the education. Its these days a rather expensive undertaking. Welcome to the capitalism aspect.

    Having said this, I would recommend that if you have the financial means to take a trip just for visiting. Even if its only a few days, it gives you an idea of what you are getting yourself into. I lived a number of years in China, and its quite an adjustment to make.

    /////////////////////////////////////////Your comment////////////////////////////////
    Finally there's the issue of preparation. If the answers to the above questions are all as I hope they will be and everything is as close to my dream as it will ever get, there's still things that I will have to do. My plan is a little less childish than it probably sounds because I plan to get an education first. I was thinking of getting a bachelors in maybe computer science (or w/e) as a back up plan and also to at least be educated. Studying also gives me the opportunity to first of all enjoy my life here in the US before I go off to live in the mountains, and second of all, prepare for the trip. By preparations I imagined 1st of all learning conversational chinese, and 2nd of all getting into the best shape I can on my own. So is there anything else I should be doing until then? Also there's the issue of age. I'm worried that (in martial arts initiate standards) I'm too old as it is, let alone after I learn chinese and get my bachelors. I was thinking I'd probably be around 23 - 25. The extra years being for learning chinese.
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    You have more common sense than a considerable number of adults twice your age. Your plan is very good and you got your priorities straight. Go for the education first. As for the living in the mountains lets re-visit this one after you have completed your degree.

    These days a number of people speak at least rudimentary English, so if you really want to you can get by even without initial knowledge of the language.

    /////////////////////////////////////////Your comment////////////////////////////////
    If theres any section or thread in your website that answers any of the above questions a link to is would be just as good as an answer in the e-mail. But I'd appreciate as many answers as you could offer since there's not a lot of people who can answer these questions. Thanks a lot for your time.
    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


    There are a number of posts on this one throughout the website and I agree its difficult to find because there is so much. I would start out with docs journals because they give you a realistic idea on the changes. Start with the earliest one and work your way towards current.


    Final Comment

    What I would like you to do is to apply the same common sense you have shown earlier in your message in regards to education to your dream. Make no mistake you will probably encounter a number of obstacles as well as disappointment. Like I said before, I highly recommend to anyone to at least visit the temple once if you have a chance. However for training, you do not necessarily stay in the mountains. You will actually find more traditional trainers outside the country. Let us know where you are located and between Doc, myself and a few others we might be able to point you towards the teachers and school where you can realize your dream.

    Uwe
    Last edited by Uwe; 11-28-2006, 06:20 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Uwe, you said it far better than I could have. I would only make this one comment however. It has been my experience, that rudimentary English is not too common in Dengfeng. I don't think anyone should go there and expect to find a significant number of people that they can communicate with. In the larger cities, you'll find English speaking people. In the smaller outlying areas, such as Dengfeng and Shaolin, its going to be less common.
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

      (more comments in my User Profile)
      russbo.com


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      • #4
        Good point doc.



        Uwe

        Comment


        • #5
          Thailand

          Dear Bald one,
          Is anything happening with your martial arts project in Thailand during feburary 2007.??

          Comment


          • #6
            They are there teaching Muay Thai. I'll be in Vegas, maybe still with Decheng. I won't be there until Vegas allergy seasons starts, which is in early March.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


            Comment

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