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What's up with that???

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  • What's up with that???

    I've been interested in shaolin for quite some time now. Main interest has allways been their gong fu. My question is why is it that i never ever find any shaolin videos containing actual applications of these blasted forms. I have tons of forms being done by various so called shaolin monks but i have not a single video containing applications. Why is there no video of the applications of the well known shao hong quan? lohan quan etc? Are they that secret???? Tai chi guys and other gong fu practitioners some times offer applications, i have seen several such videos but never from shaolin.
    Only monk i have seen perform any applications is Shi de Jian in his documentaries but besides him whats up with the rest? Any one know anything about shaolin videos with applications?

  • #2
    I think alot of these guys just dont know the application. I bet they just learned the form and thats all like the rest of us.
    The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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    • #3
      Yeah that must be it, it's sad though... Some one should know and show them i think...

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      • #4
        Yeah it is sad. Just think why would someone not teach what they claim to know. If I say I know the applications and meaning behind everything but refuse to teach it its a moot point to begin with. Even if Im telling the truth and know everything about them it doesnt even matter. You will still not learn it from me. In that case refusing to teach them is the same as not even knowing them.

        I'm sure there are still people around that know the applications of all the movements. I hear LiPeng has some real traditional movements. My wushu coach actually knows the application of the wushu movements we do. All the things that look cool but you thing would be pointless in a fight. Sometimes he just goes off on how you would use that and where the movement came form. Its actually really interesting. While we dont practice wushu for fighting knowing the theoretical application puts everything in context and actually makes the movement flow better. When I know what the move is supposed to be doing I better know how to execute it.
        The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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        • #5
          I read an article some time ago about how the Shaolin are in this fantastic shape. Really able to do some fantastic feats, but they are unable to fight sorely because they do not spar or train against uncooperative opponent. That's also a problem with many Traditional or Classical MA's, lots of flash but no substance.
          "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

          "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

          "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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          • #6
            That actually reminds me of my time at USAST... The people there train like mad men. They walk in the door start moving and dont stop until they leave. Mainly because if you stop moving you get yelled at. Still they have really good endurance. However, I dont think any of them could do much of anything with what they learn there. Much of the technique is off or completely incorrect. In terms of fighting all they do is practice kicking pads. So, they may have a good round house or side kick but no one knows how to use it in a fighting situation.
            The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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            • #7
              Well i know lots of good acrobats who cant fight. Nothing strange about it. the problem is that they think they are martial artists and fighters. Kicking pads will never be enough training for any real fight, most likely they woud be knocked out before their foot leaves the ground, it's not easy to kick people in real fights on the streets. Serious martialartists often advice not to (if you're not an expert kicker) because of the dangers of falling.
              I have practised some wushu it was fun it gave me better flexibility and excelent stamina. Thats that, it had nothing to do with combat conrary to my so called masters claims.

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              • #8
                Modern wushu is modern wushu and combat is combat. Fighting does not make you an acrobat and acrobatics does not make you a fighter. Train them both and be an agile fighter.

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                • #9
                  I agree with you there. I train wushu because its acrobatic and not about fighting. I really enjoy it. It is also the same reason i train gymnastics and acrobatics. Never did I think hand balancing would make me a better fighter lol...

                  Still, my favorite are the guys that drink beer while watching UFC and think they are unstopable fighters now. I have a friend just like this. He thinks he is a strong fighter because of the moves he has picked up watch UFC.
                  The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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                  • #10
                    Decheng knows a lot of combat applications in these forms; he's taught them to me over the years. There are a lot of applications in the simple things, such as ma bu dan bien, that you really wouldn't expect to find.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by master-lu
                      Any one know anything about shaolin videos with applications?
                      De cheng gives applications of the ehm 18 basic movements(?), on a DVD of his.

                      Many of these movements you see back in the forms like xiao hong, like doc said already.

                      I don`t know if has come out in the US though, since the one I have is european.

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                      • #12
                        Okay so there is atleast one such video. I hope i can find it since i live in europe.. Ofcourse i am aware of there being applications to the moves in the form i just never see any such videos in contrast to the millions of videos of forms.
                        Iron cross you mention a funny thing! I too know lots of "hardcore" guys who think they are rock hard fighters because they watch the UFC hahahahahaa i think it's damn funny.

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                        • #13
                          Shi Dejun also has some dvd`s with 2-person practices:

                          - Shaolin 32 methods of Qin Na
                          - The Application of routines
                          - The Application of Shaolin traditional quan and weapon

                          I`m not sure though if these techniques are authentic.
                          The quality of teaching is also very low. He just shows how the moves are done, but there is no explaning on the principles used.

                          Still, I think they are worth watching.

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                          • #14
                            Well thanks Misha thats more than i've ever seen anyway so i'll look for it.

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                            • #15
                              Learn TBQ and find a sparring partner. Preferably one who knows shui jiao. i can almost guarantee you that you will not be disappointed.

                              i never erally got why XHQ is taught before TBQ. maybe its a refinement thing...

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