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  • Shaolin and rebirth

    Hey. You've probaly discussed this before but it only just occured to me. The tibetan monks who are quite advanced supposedly can rebirth into any life they wish. This is how they can memarise and recite the tripitaka and all the tibetan sutras etc. I've heard that the book of the dead alone takes more than one life time to learn.

    Accepting this is true for now. It seems quite logical that the shaolin monks did the same. In effect learning more and improving their kung fu with each life time. Apprently they cannot remember past lives until they have been awakened to a certain degree. Maybe this is why shaolin has such a vast quantity of sets.

    Oh yeah and another question. The graves of past monks in the pagoda forest. I assume these are thought to be monks who reached enlightenment but did not chose to become bodisatvas?

    It is interesting to think that buddhists claim we need not accept any of this on faith, it will be become apprent as we progress. Sounds pretty freaky.

    Anyway, ever heard of this sort of talk from chan monks? Thanks for any help.
    help me, i'm confused

  • #2
    Oh yeah and another question. The graves of past monks in the pagoda forest. I assume these are thought to be monks who reached enlightenment but did not chose to become bodisatvas?
    No, from what I've been told, they're the graves of the monks who just died. But, they were important monks, like abbots and others of high positiions.

    Having spent some time in Tibet (and China), and having visited a lot of these temples, my impression of their uncanny ability to recite and learn various things consists less of having been through many many lifetimes, and more to do with the fact that they have little else to do.

    But, that's just my impression.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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    • #3
      I guess it is pointless to talk about it really. I just wondered if any monks at the temple ever said anything about it. I don't think it is something we should take on faith anyway.
      help me, i'm confused

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      • #4
        The monks have never mentioned to me this concept of learning gong fu over various lifetimes. It's an interesting concept, but I've never heard of it before. Besides, and I might be wrong, but I thought that the only thing you brought from one lifetime to the next, if this does occur, was karma, and not life experiences, memories and intelligence.

        Which, is good, especially if in your previous life you were a cow, or a pig, or something else that spent a huge deal of time wallowing in shit.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


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        • #5
          wallowing

          Or water buffaloes for that matter....


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          • #6
            I got the impression that memories from past lives could be seen. One lama described it this way. It's hard to remember how you felt last week and exactly what you did let alone ten years ago. Can you remember being 7, 5 or even your birth? He reckons that through practice your memories of your current life increase further and eventually your past lives.

            I imagine they see it this way. In order for you to follow their way of life you would have to have pretty good karma. You would of probaly of been a buddhist monk of some sort in your past life. One lama describes the number of life times taken to reach enlightenment in each variation of buddhism. 7 life times for theravada, 3 for mayhayana, a whole life with zen (don't remember exactly the values he used) and finally with tibetan dozgen buddhism it can take from 3 to 10 years. I imagine that they feel they can see past lives because obviously they think they are slightly better off karmically then everyone else.

            I'm currently reading the 7 worlds of chan from that buddhist website you guys said to look at. The guy doesn't state where he got his information from but it is all quite detailed and interesting. I had no idea how corrupted buddhism had become. I suppose it is only corrupted in some folks eyes (the author). Thankfully the central teaching of the buddha (noble truths) holds everything together.

            Anyway. If you have read the essay could you answer me a question? The temples in china were used as whore houses, had slaves and seemed to be filled with some of the least enlightened folk ever, from the way the author describes it. This was after the advent of chan in china too! The more corrupt temples were described as being in the north where people were generally more pollitcally and materially inclined. The shaolin temple, was this temple immune to all this? Did the shaolin temple as become a den of slaves and whores that horded wealth for tax avation?

            I get the impression that the author might be slightly biased. Although he gives a good and detailed account with blood and guts n all, he seems to portray certain buddhist practice in a bad light. He seems dead against tantric buddhism and all for Daoism. I havn't read a lot about zen history yet, is daoism generally accepted as being a big part of zen?

            It seems like whenever i read about buddhist history, the shaolin temple is never a big part of the picture. Do you think the nationlistic propaganda during the qing dynasty blew the temple all out of proportion (including it's accomplisments and teachings)? One further question, do you think with all this corruption and twisting of buddhist teachings that shaolin may of gone as far off track as the whore houses and tax avation temples?

            Gone a bit off topic, hope you don't mind.
            help me, i'm confused

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            • #7
              The temples in china were used as whore houses, had slaves and seemed to be filled with some of the least enlightened folk ever, from the way the author describes it.
              Do you have any idea how many temples are in China....... that is a pretty big claim.



              It seems like whenever i read about buddhist history, the shaolin temple is never a big part of the picture.
              What type of Buddhism..... Which branch, What local? I wouldn't expect to see too much about Shaolin in the history of Buddhism of Tibet or India... or southern China, or Mayamar, etc.
              practice wu de

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