Sources of calcium

[Asger]

Many doctors say that you should always drink at least half a litre of milk each day, to get enough calcium to keep your bones and teeth healthy.
But then some doctors say that milk isn't really a very good source of calcium. That it doesn't matter whether you drink it or not; there are no gains it.

Then I was thinking, In most parts of the world (eg. China) people are not having any milk once they are not babies anymore. But where do they get their calcium from then?

Does normal tap water have enough calcium?
And what about rice and noodles. they contain calcium?

What are good sources of calcium? And is milk really so good as some say it is?

[Lipster]

Pfah, doctors, what do they know... ( hey Doc)

Well, doctors seem to disagree on a number of things as the mood suits them. When I was a kid they started distributing these bottles of 'new' toothpaste in school since it had been discovered that fluoride was actually bad for your teeth. Then three months later they were passing round bottles with fluoride in them, since the latest discovery was that it was in fact healthy for you. Why there's so much difficulty in establishing fairly simple facts I don't know, but I can't say anything since I know jack about it. But it seems that most agree that milk is a good source of calcium.

Yoghurt
Different types of cheese; ricotta, cottage, cheddar, american, parmesan
Dark green leafy vegetables
White beans, spinach, soybeans, broccoli, kale
Almonds, molasses, dry figs, salmon with bones, taco's (apparently)
Orange juice (you can get the calcium fortified stuff)


Peace

[doc]

The only adult animal that actually consistantly drinks milk, other than humans, are cats. And we all know how smart they are.

Milk is good for growing children, who are in need of a good source of calcium, while they ossify their bones. However, once adulthood is reached, the need for calcium is not as great, and can be found in other sources. We constantly use calcium, as we are constantly "remodeling" our bones, but there are other sources that are more "healthy", like leafy green vegetables, that also assist in promoting good intestinal health. Milk in adults is not necessarily "healthy", for various reasons.

The fat content is not good for adults, for as you know, a diet rich in fat can lead to other diseases, such as cardiovascular disease (with all it's attendant disease states) and various cancers. The risk of developing these diseases is higher than the risk of being deficient in calcium, especially since so many other foods in our diets can supply us with calcium. Also, a great deal of American mailes, and males of other nationalities (such as some Jewish populations), develop a lactase deficiency in their intestines as they get older. Lactase helps break down the lactose in milk products; if you are deficient in it, then the bacteria in your gut break it down, with a different end result. The byproducts of bacterial breakdown of lactose lead to gas and particulate matter formation which leads to water formation within the intestines. Cramping, bloating, and diarrhea result.

I remember a pediatrician of many years ago, the chief of the pediatric department of my medical school actually, who spouted on a daily basis the horrors of milk ingestion in adults, especially the cardiovascular disease promotion aspect. He also smoked like a fiend. Had his heart attack by forty. Died a few years later.

So much for doctors being smart.

[doc]

I missed this in Asger's post.

The reason why people in China do not drink milk, other than the fact that they have some damn ugly and pathetic cows walking around, is that over ninety percent of them are lactase deficient.

Also, almost three quarters of native American Indians and African Americans develop lactase deficiency when they get older.

Lactose is found in other meals other than milk and dairy products (ice cream and such); you can find it in luncheon meats, breakfast cereals, salad dressings, margarine, and processed foods such as breakfast replacements, and dietary drink replacements. Notice that these are "modern day foods", as opposed to the road kill and veggies you get to enjoy in China. To give you an idea as to what happens with these foods, normally the lactose is broken down into glucose and galactose in the intestines by lactase, which is found in the cells that line the small intestine. Those two sugars are then absorbed by the intestines, where the liver breaks galactose down into glucose, for use by the body. If lactose is not broken down, it can't traverse the intestinal wall, and subsequently intestinal bacteria break it down into carbon dioxide and hydrogen gases; the lactose which is not broken down by bacteria via oxidative phosphorylation remains in the gut, and causes an osmotic imbalance, whereby water is sucked into the intestines. The end result of this, on top of nausea, bloating, and abdominal pain, is explosive diarrhea. It can be pretty painful. And messy.

People with lactase deficiency can eat dairy products, they just have to eat them with other foods, and eat them in moderation.

doc

[Asger]

Wow, thanks! that was good information.

All these technical terms.. and my english-danish dictionary hasn't got them all Guess I'll have to come back and read this thread in a few years again

I was aware of the lactase deficiency, but had no idea what it really was.

But what about rice? Aren't they stuffed with calcium?

[doc]

Rice is predominantly made up of carbohydrates. I don't think that it is a good source of calcium.

[shaolinstylee]

I know a lot of people in Asia like taking that Coral Calcium. I don't know how popular it is in China, but it is a huge thing in Japan....

[Asger]

oops, I forgot to ask:
When you stop drinking milk for a long time, will you develop lactase deficiency? I've always drinked lots of milk since i was a baby, and everyone does in my country. So if I stop, how long will it take for me not to tolerate milk anymore?

[doc]

Developing a lactase deficiency has more to do with genetics (as do a lot of other disorders) than the amount of milk that you drink. People with lactase deficiency can lead normal lives, and even eat some milk products, as long as they don't over do it. You might never develop this disorder; also, it seems to be rare in northern European countries.

[daodejing]

Someone said something about green leafy vegetables being good sources of calcium.

That is right and yet not correct. Green leafy vegetables are often fairly high in calcium and iron in comparison to other plant foods, but it is not dietarily accessible. The oxalic acid (a precursor to ascorbic acid or vitamin C) in such things like spinich etc, binds to calcium and iron and forms an indigestable waste product which is then excreted. It was once beleived that spinich could be used as a low cost treatment for anemia in low income areas but this was later refuted when nutritionists realised that the majority of calcium and iron in things like spinich and other leaves is not dietarily accessable due to the actions of oxalic acid.

I think almonds are a decent source of Ca.

Feel free to correct and or elaborate on my statements Doc

[Idoia]

Hi all,
A tin of sardines is full of Ca, you can eat the bones too, and increase the level of calcium.
Olives are very rich in Ca too.


Idoia

[doc]

I can't exactly elaborate on any of your comments Dao, when it comes to nutrition my expertise lies in sushi, pizza, and chocolate chip cookies. I'm going to have to leave this nutritional expertise up to someone else....

[Bungle]

I've read a few things about nutrition. I'm no expert but i heard raw milk is better for you than pasterised milk. The raw milk contains its own natural bacteria that aids in digestion and tops up our own intestinal bacteria. Some folks decided to pasterise milk cos of e coli breakouts. Some nutritionists argue that this was due to bad farming and uncleanly handling of the milk. Also, raw milk contains a small amount of vitamin c. I thought the reason spinich is bad for iron is because there are two different types of iron. Heme iron and non-heme iron or something. Basically plant iron cannot be used by humans very well while the iron in meat can be.

As for green leafy vegetables not being good sources of calcium. I believe you can find many tables on the internet giving exact values of how much calcium can be asorbed by the human body from different sources. Just do a search. These tables seem to suggest broccoli is a pretty good substitute and while spinach isn't quite as good it still delivers. I think nuts and beans are good too.

Also if you want to talk about substances that bind to vitamins and mess with absorbtion look at the stuff in most grains. Rice contains phytate which binds with iron and lowers absorbtion.

Lastly, should you look to the asian world for dietry advice? Their health isn't as great as many studies point out. Although big killer diseases in the west are lower in asia, other diseases are higher there. They ain't the tallest people either. I imagine bone structure is directly realted to the nutrients needed to build bones.

It's hard to get raw milk though and so we gotta try other sources. You could take vitamins on the other hand. But researching vitamins is entering another whole world of pain.

[doc]

I'm no expert but i heard raw milk is better for you than pasterised milk.

Yes, if you're sucking it directly out of the cow. I'd like to have a video of THAT. LOL.

The problem with unpasteurized milk, is E.coli gastroenteritis, which can be deadly. The risks do not outweigh the benefits in this situation. Not at all. Not just to get a small amount of Vitamin C, which you can get in far too many other foods, and pills.

Not sure about your impression of Asian food. True, it's not high in protein, and, with the cooking oils that they use, tends to be high in fats, but the bad stuff is offset by the fact that they eat lots of veggies. The lack of protein probably contributes to their decreased muscle mass, but as for bone length, I think genetics plays more of a role than nutrition.

[shaolinstylee]

I'd like to have a video of THAT.

What is up with all the animal stuff lately doc?

I mentioned coral calcium before, has that stuff been mostly discredited as of late. Is it still a good source of calcium?