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Doc, what do you know about punch (strike) of one cun (inch)?

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  • Doc, what do you know about punch (strike) of one cun (inch)?

    Doc, what do you know about punch (strike) of one cun (inch)?

    I'm looking for description for this technique for quite a while, but I don't know anybody competent enoguh around the place where I live. I know just bits and pieces of information about this particular technique (by the way, it might be called somewhat differently, the way I called it is just a free interpretation of how the name stands in Russian). Can ou help me with this one?

    Thank you.

  • #2
    one inch force

    one inch force like the kind brucee lee demonstrated? like the mpeg i submitted to this site?

    or are you talkin about somethin else?

    cause..one inch force has been around alot longer then bwucee wee...

    and there are different methods of training in it

    i dunno how effective it is for combat..because as i can tell the power comes from the ground up, so its not like a dim mak strike(which can be an inch or a centimeter no difference in distance) you got to be standing and in the right position..and i guess if you were gonna use it in combat youd have to be pretty good at it to use it effectively..its not like someones just gonna stand there and let ya hit em, or like your just gonna feel like using that amount of force in that certain way to hurt someone..

    i dunno, its kinda an odd skill to learn, and im ranting a bit

    but i dunno, i dont think doc knows much about this technique..if he does ill be surprised and delighted..doubt the monks know anything like this, but would be wierd if they did
    "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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    • #3
      The advantage of such technique is that it is almost untraceable, and good on close distances. The key is use of inside energy (ki). But unfortunately I don't know the specifics of this technique. I think it is a punch from extreme short distance from the target. When practiced well could be a big help in some situations. But I need to know the way to do it first, so I won't be training wrong moves.

      P.S. Where is that video with Bruce Lee?

      Comment


      • #4
        Here's the link for the Bruce Lee demo: http://www.russbo.org/vb/showthread.php?t=307&highlight=punch.

        Personally, I don't think much of it. If you read the forums, you'll see that we have had quite the discussion with respect to qi. If you look at it from a purely physics standpoint, there really is no basis in fact for this so called one inch punch being a result of increased qi. Let's take a look at it from a high school physics view, which, I remind you, was a long time ago, in a galaxy (New York) far, far away.

        Force equals the mass of the object times the acceleration of the object (or, times the change in velocity of the object divided by the change in time). Basically, the force of the strike as it hits a person, is derived from the mass of the object that hits him (fist and arm if your body is immobile, whole body, or a portion thereof, if you're moving your body with your strike) multiplied by the acceleration of your fist or body. Let's simplify this, and just say that you're keeping your body immobile; the striking object is basically your fist. Your fist has a defined mass, which is not going to change. So, to increase the force with which you hit your opponent, you must increase the acceleration of that fist, before it strikes the opponent. In other words, the faster that you can accelerate your fist, the more force that you'll hit him with.

        Now, if you have an acceleration of x, (a change of velocity over time), the longer you have to accelerate your fist before it strikes the opponent, the more force you will hit him with, provided that you continually increase the acceleration of your fist. If you accelerate your fist and do not maintain a constant acceleration (ie, keep increasing the speed of your fist over that period of time before you strike him, you will not increase the amount of force that you hit him with. So, if you throw a roundhouse punch from way behind you (two feet), and you accelerate your fist for only a short duration of time, you will not increase the force that you hit him with. In fact, if you can accelerate your fist a large amount over a short duration (one inch, as opposed to two feet), you might even be able to match the force of a strike from a larger distance, but with a slower, or terminal, acceleration.

        Now, you can increase the force with which you strike your opponent, if you increase the mass behind the strike (which is why with many strikes in gong fu, and the Okinawan arts, there is a movement of the hips, or, a move from mah bu to gong bu). The easiest way to do this, is to put your body behind it. However, if you increase the mass, you might end uo decreasing the acceleration (because you have more mass to get moving and accelerate). A really large guy might actually have a less forceful punch, because, even though he might have a lot of mass behind the punch, the increased mass might cause a significant degradation in his ability to accelerate his mass behind the punch. If you have a lighter guy, who can accelerate his punch and body at a much greater rate, he might be able to provide more force to his punch. Even a punch thrown over a short distance.

        So, take someone like Bruce Lee, an Asian who obviously has less mass than your typical American (even though he was taking some serious steroids in the end), but who has a body with muscle tissue largely made up of "fast" muscle fibers. He can take his lighter mass (body) and put it behind a punch with an awesome acceleration. That awesome acceleration is the key to the power behind his punch, regardless of whether it is thrown over two feet or one inch. In fact, if he threw a punch over two feet, he might not generate any more terminal force than if he threw it over one inch; the reason being, he might not be able to accelerate his punch any more than he does over his initial movement.

        So, the one inch punch, from a scientific viewpoint, has nothing to do with qi. It has to do with physics.
        but i dunno, i dont think doc knows much about this technique
        Oh Maestro, ye of little faith my man

        doc
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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        • #5
          one inch punch

          Sometimes after class some of the students will see some of the pads that are in the temple and pick them up and start throwing kicks or punches. Eventually Sifu will wind up back there and he will stop them from throwing punches or kicks from behind them or from the back foot or fist. He tells them to kick or punch with the front foot or fist. He will usually demo this once or twice and the person holding the pad feels the strike alot more than when the student was hitting it with the longer distance. Sifu always tells us that we should strike with the closest hand because it is harder to defend. It takes alot less time for my closer fist to reach you than the one that is behind me. This gives the target less time to react.

          When he had the punching machine built he also set up the rules. You had to throw the punch from a stationary position and you had to hit with the leading hand. Most people who approached the machine had to be reminded about the leading hand rule. Basically what it sounds like to me is he was isolating the important factor from all of the variables....speed. Like Doc says, you just need to be able to accelarate to an awesome speed over a short distance and you will have an amazing strike, no matter what the other variables are. I have seen this with my own eyes.

          Chi is in there but lets not get into another "lets define chi" discussion!

          Peace!
          Bhodi

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          • #6
            Thanx

            Many thancs to all!

            Still... Even though there is a lot of physics in a punch or a kick, concentrating ones qi is no less important, than the body move. Qi is not some magical energy like force in Star Wars. It is much more real. Again, it is a physical process as well. I cannot say that I'm on an expert, or even on an intermediate level in using qi, but I know what I'm talking about. Though Wing Chung (my first style) is not purely based on inside energy, nor purely on outside energy (as master Simon Lau - another desciple of Ip Man, says).

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            • #7
              well

              well, doc i know your a smart guy, i didnt expect you to define the technique that way..

              i meant like..training in that technique..but you basically did lay that out as well

              i bet if kaan followed what you said above hed accomplish what he wanted in i dunno a few short months maybe..

              ye of little faith..no

              ye of little brain capacity

              thats me! whohooo
              "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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              • #8
                Doc is right, if he were merely talking linearly....... with a round punch, there would always be some acceleration.... the constant change in direction would constantly change the vector of velocity, thus there is an alpha associated with that change... Now, there is force, then there is also transfer of momentum, etc..... How hard someone is hitting has a few different components to it, but with short strikes it is the acceleration and alignment that is important (the more of you getting behind it the more mass).
                practice wu de

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                • #9
                  Bruce Lee on Steriods?

                  Hello Doc

                  I was wondering where you got your info that Bruce was taking steriods? I know he was into serious vitamans and supplements but didn't know he'd crossed the line. I'd be dissapointed if this was true since I kinda liked his outlook on life and training. I, as most of us, went through a Bruce lee is god phase.

                  Thanks
                  WushuSpear

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                  • #10
                    One thing about this one inch punch: It's really not that hard or a secret at all. You use your body just like in a normal punch, but you just let your hand move very little. Relaxation is the key to this kind of punch, fully tensioned hand doesn't move fast. It doesn't take years of practise, just someone who can do it and explain it to you. Generating a lot of force with it might take some practise though, but that comes along with your normal punch practise.

                    In regards of putting weight behind the fist being the idea of hip movement, I disagree somewhat (well, of course it might be the case in some techniques, the way the change from ma bu to gong bu is executed is a big factor). Especially that is the case with Okinawan arts. As an example I could use shutouke (knife hand block), while it has a double rotation, it summarizes my point very finely. Okinawan artists rotate the hip to generate twisting movement which launches the torso and it's various muscles to a twisting motion, which then launches shoulder forward a lot faster, thusly making the hand move faster and striking with more force.

                    There is also a "dropping" one inch punch (I don't know what it is really called) which doesn't use hip rotation, but rather a xingyi-like falling. It is much harder to describe for me as english isn't my first language.

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                    • #11
                      I was wondering where you got your info that Bruce was taking steriods?

                      Two reasons.

                      One, pictures of him, and his horribly increased muscularity and decreased body fat, almost without a doubt, point to steroid use. You don't get that way without them. Not that large, not that pronounced, not that defined, without anabolic steroid assistance.

                      Second, a friend of mine who knew him well told me that he used them.

                      He also had epilepsy.....
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


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                      • #12
                        From this:
                        Attached Files
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


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                        • #13
                          To this:
                          Attached Files
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We do this one-inch punch stuff in Taijiquan all the time. First it's knowing how to use bodily structure properly and then knowing how to direct one's intention in a proper way as well. To make energy rapidly expel outwards from the body requires the body to sink it's center straight down at the same time allowing the waist to suddenly turn. If you remain relaxed as was previously mentioned the striking arm should shoot out. Taijiquan is considered to be Middle and Short range fighting system.

                            This type of technique is not prefered in Taiji though, better to neutralize and throw him of balance then to send him flying.

                            me two cents worth
                            "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

                            "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

                            "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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                            • #15
                              one thing i have to say is that you and your subject would have to be stationary and in very specific positions for this to work out. also, your subject would have to present to you a very solid target that's connected to the rest of his body, such as his torso square to your fist, for you to knock him back significantly. also, as i think the punch is done with the forearm parallel to the floor to get the most power from the hips, you would be hitting around the stomach area of a similarly-sized opponent, so you would probably make him slump over and not make him sail backwards. but maybe in the tai chi version it's done at shoulder height; it sounds like it might be.

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