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  • How many monks in a generation?

    Hi,
    Im wondering how many genuine Shaolin Monks there actually are? Is it hunreds? Thousands? Or only dozens?
    Also, how many monks in a generation? Eg: how many Yan monks are there, and De monks etc. Roughly.

    I only get to read about the more well known monks. Yan Zi, Yan Ming, Yan Zhang, Yan Shang, Yan Jiang, De Cheng, De Yang, Shi Heng Jun etc. Are there loads of other monks out there that are just as skilled (if not more skilled) than these?

    Cheers

  • #2
    As far as how many to a generation, it all depends on how many take vows from a previous generation. If you take vows from a 31st generation, then you are 32nd... etc... so you could in fact have 33rd generation monks that have been around longer than 32nd. Gene Ching wrote up a good post on these topics over on kungfu magazines forums.
    practice wu de

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    • #3
      Shi Yongxin, the abbot, actually screwed this up a bit. As I've mentioned before, he's taking on quite a lot of new disciples, so the generation names will change for some of these guys. Also, no other monks can be in the "Yong" generation anymore, from what I've been told. They have to move to the next generation lower.
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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      • #4
        Is it usual (traditional) that the monks have to give up their generation names because of a new abbot, or is this some new idea of Yong Xin's?

        What if a monk's master was from the Yong generation, but he had to change to the Yan generation, would his disciples still be the Yan generation?
        Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.

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        • #5
          This is not a traditional thing. As far as what masters will do with their disciples, I'm not sure, but, I sincerely doubt that a newly changed Yan master will keep Yan disciples. No doubt, the changes will flow downhill. And remember, not all monks are following this; not all monks are on the bandwagon, so to speak.
          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

          (more comments in my User Profile)
          russbo.com


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          • #6
            Check out this thread here .
            practice wu de

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            • #7
              I'll have to disagree with Gene on a few points. Though he is correct in what he is saying, in my opinion, it may be a bit misleading in its presentation. Not because of the way that Gene is describing it, but, because of the nature of the beast. It's a tough beast to describe and understand.

              Catholicism is on the rise in China, and it is not at all impaired by the Chinese government. In fact, Wangfujing Street during the Christmas season becomes quite the little showpiece, with lights and trees.

              The number of monks is really hard to set down. First of all, not only do we have a problem with delineating who a monk is, Yongxin does too. No doubt he does not count the all the monks that have left the temple since his reign. And, from my last two visits there, Yongxin has many of what Gene would call "performance" monks, students in the temple who basically are there to do daily performances. As many of these guys are not yet 18, technically, they cannot be monks. (not old enough to take the vows, at least, the age historically that they took the vows).

              Also, trying to place these guys into one of three categories, though admirable to try to make it easier to understand, in my opinion just doesn't work. Shi Xing Hong, largely considered to be a "warrior" monk, also did many, many performances (a "performance" monk?), and now is terribly into Buddhism (a "fully indoctrinated" monk?). Deyang still does performances, and is a "fully indoctrinated" monk. Decheng no longer does performances, but used to, but as far as I know, didn't go through the "fully indoctrinated" route. Anyone who meets him can affirm the level that he has achieved.

              I don't think that you can create these categories, nor do I think that you can assign people to them that easily. But I do understand why one would do so, as it is a good attempt at trying to make people understand what's truly going on over there. (Not sure if they over there really know what's going on, lol). True, to be a monk in Yongxin's world now, attendance at the Beijing Buddhist college is necessary, or was, from what I last heard. But, Yongxin draws martial monks out of the local student population of Dengfeng, where he "owns", or has "ties" to, four different gong fu schools. These guys are students, these guys are kids, these guys can't really add or subtract too well. But, they're gong fu, mainly wushu now, is fantastic. They're drawn into the temple to do daily performances, in two areas that are primarily set up for such activity now. Do these kids eventually take vows when they reach 18? Do they eventually go to the Beijing Buddhist college, to further their education? Not sure, too soon to tell, as this activity just started last year.

              One thing is for sure though. From what I have seen, they all become Shi Yongxin's disciples. There will be a lot of Yan's running around in the future. There are a lot of new Yan's now, as many of the school's headmasters pay "homage" to the new chief. Not all follow this path however; even though they have lived in the temple as a traditional monk in the past. Ae they included in Yongxin's "count" of present day monks?

              You decide that...
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

              (more comments in my User Profile)
              russbo.com


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              • #8
                He also seems to be firmly in Yong Xin's pocket as an official mouthpiece.

                Gene skirted the Wan Heng bit adeptly. Black ball indeed.

                Yong Xin cares about denaro.

                It's obvious. DeMasco is perfect proof.

                You're not in his camp, you're "ejected" for whatever reason, you're in his camp, carte blanche basically. Can't blame some of them- they're stuck in the middle. The whole Beijing college thing just does not sit well with me really, not when there are plenty of Ch'an masters carrying on the transmission that monks should have available to them. I mean, it would be like sending a young pizza maker from Brooklyn to Iowa to learn how to make a sicilian pie from Tombstone Pizza Co.

                I doubt your monks will go back, Doc.

                The lines get even more blurry between heshang and wuseng because some wuseng have extensive buddhism training, and may have been fully indoctrinated but still consider themselves wuseng- the best thing Gene said was how each was to be taken on an individual basis which defies categorization. Some monks trace two distinct lineages, a Ch'an lineage and a martial lineage.

                Another thing Gene mentioned was that discipleship in Shaolin is like other martial discipleships- but I don't think that is fair to say. The Shaolin discipleship ceremony, Gui Yi Bha, Gui Yi Fa, Gui Yi Sen- you become a Buddhist...that's taking refuge, the triple jewels, or as sifu describes the meaning, no worth can be given, priceless...

                That sounds more accurate to me than the word 'Jewel.'
                "Arhat, I am your father..."
                -the Dark Lord Cod

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