Arafat: The loss of the world's greatest terrorist

[dogchow108]

Al-Kidwa said toxicology tests were conducted but “no poisons known to doctors were found.”

He also said that the files gave no clear diagnosis for Arafat’s death on Nov. 11 in a Paris military hospital.



LOL... Damn, the Israeli's are smart.

We're GOOD, Doc, good. We're smart too but more importantly were good.

However, like ive said elsewhere, i am almost disappointed that ill never know for a fact WE got to kill the guy who wore a military uniform to get a Nobel Peace Prize and, as i understand it, addressed the UN with a gun on him.

[doc]

We'll never know. For if we ever did, and you did, could you imagine the fallout? Best for everyone that no one ever finds out.

But, you know, and I know...

And now the French put on his death certificate that he was born in Jerusalem. Amazing.

[dogchow108]

Nothing surprizing there...it goes without being said that France was one of Arafat's strongholds of support during his tenure as the Egyptian identity-theif leader of his people.

[doc]

From MSNBC:

RAMALLAH, West Bank - Yasser Arafat’s nephew said Saturday the lack of a clear reason for his uncle’s death raised suspicions the Palestinian leader died of “unnatural” causes.

The comments by Nasser al-Kidwa, after he handed over the 558-page medical dossier to Palestinian officials in Ramallah, were certain to fuel speculation that Arafat was poisoned. Arafat died in a French hospital on Nov. 11.

Rumors and speculation among Palestinians and the broader Arab world that Arafat was poisoned could make it more difficult for a new leadership to take control. Palestinian presidential elections are scheduled for Jan. 9.

Al-Kidwa, who is also the Palestinian envoy to the United Nations, repeated his statement from last month that the French doctors were unable to rule out the possibility that Arafat had been poisoned, although they said they had not found traces of “any poison known to them.”

[dogchow108]

No evidence of poisoning...then what the **** did they write a 600 page report on??


Even if the guy had been killed, the more i think about it the less it makes sense that Israel nailed him. The most likely killers of any Arab leader throughout Arab history have always been their own people.

[shaolinstylee]

I was talking to someone the other day about this, and given the situation that Arrafat was in for like the last year, there is a good chance that one of his own took him out to have a change in situation for them. They were in a sticky situation with him still being the leader, and being basically cornered, where as a new guy could bring more out in change that in the same old story.

[dogchow108]

Doc,

Unfortunately, the problem with people like Arafat is that they usually create one of the folloiwing two situations should they ever "depart" for whatever reason:

1- make their personal existence essential to the government, thus making any reform difficult at best, and also making it to where if they leave, then theres a problem with picking up from where everything was left off. take for example, when this whole health thing started, the desperate- and failed- scramble by the people in charge now to convice Arafat to give them control of the PA's money. You think Suha kept that old, decrepit, ugly disgusting bastard alive because she cared about him? That life support might as well have been attatched to her bank.

or

2- make sure their legacy rings in the hearts of the next generations. And THIS is where most of the fear of the skeptics lies. This is why you will hear the pessimistic in Israel say that it wont make a difference. While the US is quick to allocate $20 million to the PA to pull them out of money debts- money that is more likely to actually go into good use this time I must admit, The problem of ideology cannot be solved as easily when infants are taught to kill, and elementary school kids are taught to want to die.

Personally, i prefer we have the troubles brought on by the first thing than by the second one. Arafat was, undoubtably, a cold blooded mass-murderer. I am disgusted that the Israeli govt ever gave him a second thought, but thats just how it went. He was also without a doubt the most major obstacle to peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians EVER. But, after the circus he led, I dont expect his removal to jump-start things so quickly- although it's a start.

[shaolinstylee]

Good point Dogchow... where do you think this is going to lead in the next 5 years?

[dogchow108]

Well, personally i have no clue. I think there's pleny of people who probably are 100% convinced that this was the major tree in the middle of the road that just got lifted. And on the other hand there's people who are 100% convinced that the Israelis made Arafat to be a major problem when he was not really. Though one side of this has always struck me as less convincing than the other, they both have made good points.

The Israeli government is still a very stubborn institution, and you have to keep in mind it is a Jewish government, with Jewish interests., which leads often to ambiguities. For example, in my opinion, one of the places where Israeli policy has fallen short is in the effort to remove settlers.
I think they need to be removed from areas that are on the negotiating tables, regardless of the legality issue (which believe me is not always as obvious as the press sometimes makes it out to be).
The problem, having said that, is that this would be a failure on behalf of the Israeli government to act for Jewish interest (which, as an item on the agenda of the government of the only Jewish state in the world, should be its top priority and has every right to be). Not so much because they are "uprooting Jews from Jewish land", but because this falls in plan with a clearly, unambigously stated PLO objective to cleanse the middle east of Jewish autonomy. You have to understand that the PLO was not made to create a Palestinian state- it was made to destroy the Jewish one. If you EVER have any doubts about that, read the PLO charter for one. I'm not even tlaking about Fateh, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad--- i'm talking about the people Israel is expected to go to the negotiating tables with. The Palestinians cannot ask for both removal of settlers AND a "right" to return to what is now Israel- that simply wont fly.

There's more to this, of course, but you see my point is that every issue has kind of 3 and a half points of view here. There is a genuine Right and Left wing in Israel, and this majorly divides Israeli concensus on this. On the Other hand, the PA is still a primitive totalitarian government, which one can hardly say has afforded its people the kind of dichotomy in thought that Israeli public has had. Not only dont i think its not fair to say the Palestinians have only 1.5 views, i actually think would be unfair to say they do because that kills any future chance they ever really will have that luxury.

Drawing then, that Israeli public concensus is the major driving force behind the actions of the Israeli government, one can maybe understand why the death of Arafat has not exactly unlocked any hidden vaults (both literally and figuratively speaking). Sharon is in a very delicate situation. If there's anything this past term should ahve taugt him is that he can go to sleep agreed with and wake up the next morning with a crisis in his government.

In my opinion, we really need to wait for the water to clear in the PA (which i am not holding my breath for), and then start making speculations. I understand that Marwan Bargouti has given up his race for the Palestinian elections, something which i feel will help in the long run. But you have to understand how insignificant something so seemingly significant really is. From my perspective, we are talking about a culture which to its very core is hostile to Israel. You would have a very hard time convinging me that the Palestinians have been as tolerant, be it politics, general public concensus, education, on and on and on... as Israelis have been with them. Its just much easier for Palestinians to look more unified and organized when there is only one voice allowed.

We'll see.

[LeiYunFat]

We'll see.

That is what I read.

[shaolinstylee]

Thanks for the post. I've sort of taken a wait and see attitude with this myself, as I think you can't really speculate much until they have a new leader, and see what direction he goes in.

[dogchow108]

Emphasis on He

[shaolinstylee]

Well, it's not like we've (we being the US) elected a crap load of woman, but just give it a few years.. there will be a good chance we may have our first canidate for pres. that might actually me mestral.

[dogchow108]

Well, one of Israel's first prime-ministers was a woman. Golda Meir. Man, now she kicked ass...


I find it Ironic though that during Israel's more "archaic" times we had a woman PM, and now not. weird.

[shaolinstylee]

Oh, well, I was talking about the PLO, but yeah. I think when the time is right, it may happen. Either way, the whole Isreal, PLO, and the rest of the middle east should be interesting in the next few months as we have these elections coming up.