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What to teach a Shaolin Monk

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  • #76
    Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
    Dear friends,

    i had to do some zazen to somehow get out of the confusion of doc's description how to slaughter a chicken. Catch it while it wants to run away. Replace chicken by children or slave and you will still get the sensual pleasure of tasting it. Are you not american guys afraid of becoming Pinochet torture guy? Do you know the law of karma is wrong?

    I d like to focus this one on ignorance. My friends, are you SAINTS, do you KNOW you are non violent when you eat and kill fish? Buddhism shares with the socratic initiation of philosophy the importance attached to ignorance. Socrates knowing he knew nothing was the wisest man in Greece, those who claimed knowledge seemed only to have opinions. By the way, Plato advocated a vegetarian diet, which may be linked to the dionysiac religion.

    In buddhism, ignorance is the root of paticasamupada, the dependent origination of samsara, the cycle of violence and suffering. One of the aspect of ignorance is the ignorance of the suffering of living beings: we think we are non violent but we are not, we create suffering while we have the OPINION we are being non violent. Think of the millions of children that die every year without proper medicines while capitalist countries and companies keep their money.

    In philosophy the medicine for ignorance is DOUBT. In buddhism the medicine for ignorance is letting go the EGO. By doubting, i put myself into question. To doubt and question is the heart of the socratic initiation. Zen master Dogen said to find oneself, you have to forget oneself.

    So when i pull a fish out of the water am i acting according the fish will or according to my EGO? Remember in Mahayana temple they often have this practice of releasing fishes into the water. That is practicing emptiness.

    And what about the craving for killing, the craving for the sensual pleasure of eating, the craving for the point of view that i am non violent? Shouldnt i let go the craving if i practice shaolin gongfu?

    I hope it is not too much preaching, i try to use a socratic attitude by questioning and using question marks. But do you really want to question and meditate on the mahayanist compassion for the suffering of every living being? Do we not need to discuss this with our shaolin warriors friends? Not teaching but questioning.

    Again, are you a SAINT, do you KNOW you are non violent when you eat?

    Peace

    you're still off topic against admin's request you keep this cr*p to the thread designed for it, but, I'll answer.

    You know the only reason I couldn't be sure and stay open? Because I dont know if I made it to my goal yet. but I know what it is and what it's designed to do.
    If I do, and it took eating anything at all or certain other critical courses of action to get there to facilitate it, and it increased carbon neutrality or negativity on the planet for how ever many generations, let alone just for myself, then that would mean also that I was more likely on the money about all the rest of my insight all the way to parinirvana and so yes. I would say I had been non violent.
    I think the biggest advantage of being humans is that we get more information about our full eco system to be able to make more concious long term decisions about it.

    some ppl can reason that far to understand the broader perspective and the true context of what is apparent, and where zen is imo in it's greatest glory, or failing that, at least reserve judgment for benefit of that doubt you spoke about with the understanding that it might or might not become clear later, and some ppl cannot.
    it only takes one seed of sincere doubt to treat ignorance and change the world by allowing other possiblities to share a stage. that is how detachment and tolerance work together to promote peace.

    could you be wrong by any chance, do you think?

    if the philosophy is that doubt is medicine for ignorance, then welcome to my world and why I put myself out there. I really do think it's enough.

    If you believe in the merit of not being attached to absolutes, then maybe you yourself should accept that you could be shoving all this down ppl's throats when you might not even be sure if youu are right. how non violent is that?

    let ppl have samara anyway. I dont really think you even have a choice. and that being the case, what do you think futile efforts means??

    see why I'm going for the international education syllabus to present another option knowing ppl may or may not take it on board?
    "honestly girls dont seem to want anything other then whatever they want "atm" then that can always change:"
    maestro's love genius.

    first we work to live, then we live to work, ..& then when someone else can do it good enough without us - we can all run off and die.
    Blooming tianshi lotus

    "find something & thatd turn me on.." drahillionaire, warren buffet.

    'if you keep going, eventually you get there' chuck norris

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post

      i had to do some zazen to somehow get out of the confusion of doc's description how to slaughter a chicken. Catch it while it wants to run away. Replace chicken by children or slave and you will still get the sensual pleasure of tasting it. Are you not american guys afraid of becoming Pinochet torture guy?
      Children are not as satisfying .

      They scream when you put your hands around their throats, and they're not as meaty as chickens. Besides, after a while their mommies miss them.

      Are you two people? Just curious, now that you have an avatar.
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

      (more comments in my User Profile)
      russbo.com


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      • #78
        The one on the right is my wife. Met her in Beijing after coming back from Shaolin in 2001。

        The girl on the left is a practitioner of left tantrism. I just let you imagine what it means.

        So Doc, if shaolin warriors dont need to change about compassion for animals, what do they need to change to become enlightened?
        Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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        • #79
          "what do they need to change to become enlightened?"

          this is a profound question.
          ZhongwenMovies.com

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          • #80
            The girl on the left scares me. Got that "come hither" kind of sexy "eat you after I ravish you" look. Sorry. My mind is wandering.

            What do they need to change to become enlightened? I don't know how to become enlightened, so I can't answer that. But for the most part, they might want to start acting more like monks.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


            Comment


            • #81
              master splinter is laughing silently in the corner...
              "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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              • #82
                Doc said: What do they need to change to become enlightened? I don't know how to become enlightened, so I can't answer that. But for the most part, they might want to start acting more like monks.

                So it is kind of vicious circle. If they need to act more like monks, they also need to think about their level of compassion towards animals. Now, just for the eating part of relation with animals, do buddhism advocate vegetarianism just as a religious rule per se, or is it born from some compassionate insight? I would tend to believe that buddhist vegetarianism comes from a compassionate insight of the will of most animals to continue living and not suffer.

                But that is just a belief.
                Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

                Comment


                • #83
                  An academic study of the history of meat eating and animal sacrifice in jainism and hinduism

                  http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/ark/stories/s848973.htm

                  and one more link about the current day meat eating hindus in india.

                  http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/...833772532.html

                  which one is most in line which the traditional practices of the beliefs?

                  Blooming tianshi lotus.
                  Last edited by blooming tianshi lotus; 05-16-2008, 10:12 PM.
                  "honestly girls dont seem to want anything other then whatever they want "atm" then that can always change:"
                  maestro's love genius.

                  first we work to live, then we live to work, ..& then when someone else can do it good enough without us - we can all run off and die.
                  Blooming tianshi lotus

                  "find something & thatd turn me on.." drahillionaire, warren buffet.

                  'if you keep going, eventually you get there' chuck norris

                  Comment

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