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  • #61
    Almost hate to be the one to bust your theory open, but


    kfc was the first foreign food franchise iin china, and just out of dengfeng, there is , you guessed it, a KFC.

    all of us who have been to china, and more so dengfeng, know this that these fast food chains are there. how many of those monks have travelled anywhere in china or abroad though airports and towns and so on do you think?? if you had to guess a number?

    I believe that you are Petalova from muculardevelopment.com and are nothng but trolling here and on a recruitment drive. they're doing the same thing at shaolinwolf, but the steriods army crew aLso big at musculardevelopment.com, and I've told him and other members there about it aswell.

    I did personally invite you all to come take a look at shaolin and speak to you all about it though, and I told the crew here that I was off recruiting at that time, so that's that then. t


    I did question your motives being here earlier, but didn't really have any reason to deliberate, but I think that is ample.

    It is nOt compassionate to try to suggest that ppl should starve over eating whatever is available. thaat is the harsh reality. it's not and speaking only for myself, you nor anyone else will likely EVer convince me or most of us otherwise. you clearly just have nooo tf idea what it takes to maintain a civilisation nor the cycle of life period.


    Blooming tianshi lotus.
    Last edited by blooming tianshi lotus; 05-07-2008, 11:13 AM.

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    • #62
      Well BTL, KFC is growing in China, is it a good sign? I heard the 14 Dalai Lama asked KFC to stay out of Tibet because of its unethical treatment of chicken. Maybe he has some compassionate insight about this?

      You say i wont change anybody's opinions. But do you have opinions or knowledge? Do you know about non violence or do you believe? Maybe you should realize your ignorance. It is the first step in philosophy. Have you seen PETA's video on KFC? What do you know about chicken in a KFC plant? Please let me know what you really know, and if you dont know make an effort to know by watching some PETA's videos.

      I dont want anybody to starve, that would be Hinayana i guess. But i d like people to know what they are doing. It seems i am often the only ignorant and vegetarian when people around me eat meat and KNOW what they do. They are so clever and i am so ignorant. They are even more clever than Ghandi or Sakyamuni.

      About what it takes a civilisation to survive i dont know much but i know that million of hindus have been veg for ages and that their civilisation did not do worse than the West or China or Africa. Do you think if buddhism and hinduism and jainism promote vegetarianism it is just as a religious rule or because of compassion? Bodhidhamma came from India so if you want to practice Shaolin Gongfu i suggest you get inspired by indian civilisation and ways of life. And by the way, many believed that a civilisation needed slavery to exist.

      And please i suggest you meditate on what you really know about non violence and on the importance of ignorance in philosophy, buddhism and hinduism. And watch Peta's videos about KFC and other questions if you dont really know what is modern animal industry. I know most people wont do it, for different reasons, but as a philosopher i can only regret people prefer to stay in ignorance. Would you please do it for me and animals and let me know what you think? Thanks.
      Last edited by liutangsanzang; 05-07-2008, 02:08 PM.

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      • #63
        Chicken tastes so good. I like to make it soaked in lemon juice then breaded in whole grain flour. Brown it in some olive oil, then bake in a lemon juice/both combination until cooked through. Soooo tasty. In fact I think I will go eat some chicken right now for lunch. Man I love eating animals.....
        The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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        • #64
          Originally posted by blooming tianshi lotus View Post
          It is nOt compassionate to try to suggest that ppl should starve over eating whatever is available.
          i dont think he suggested anyone starve. and you're lying to yourself if you say the only thing available to you is kfc or just meat. if you can afford to go there you can afford to buy some fruits and vegetables.

          you're just trying to convince yourself that its okay to eat animal flesh because thats whats available sometimes. if you can come online and chat about it, your life is in a better situation than to only have meat. besides, meat costs more.

          and even for many farm workers in china, meat is a rarity. they only eat the crops that they grow. but in some regions, meat is in fact much of what is available.

          but for you, meat is not the only thing that is available. its a choice. you're making an excuse to justify yourself. guilty conscience does that. you can continue fighting the logic for years if you like.

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          • #65
            Iron Cross, taking pleasure in something is not a criteria for ethics.
            Rapers have pleasure in raping, slave owners have pleasure in having slaves. It does not make it non violence.
            Again can you get close a chicken without him going away? And can you catch him without using force?
            As Yoda said, dont use the force!

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            • #66
              Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
              As Yoda said, dont use the force!
              I'm a huge Star Wars fan, and Yoda never said that!
              "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

              "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

              "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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              • #67
                i have the same feeling every i see laozi "quoted."
                ZhongwenMovies.com

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                • #68
                  Actually Yoda always told us to USE the force. I'm sorry man but that chicken is FOOD end of story case closed. I'm sure a lion gets pleasure from killing and eating a zebra. I doubt the zebra enjoys that any. But if the lion did not he would die. Lions cant live on soy burgers. I never did get a straight answer as to that one from any super veggie people. I am an athlete to the extreme degree. Wushu, gymnastics, acrobatics, rock climbing, biking, hiking, are some of my regular activities. I need all the quality protein I can get in a natural form and plenty of easily absorbable Vitamin B-12 and Heme Iron. Without which I would not be able to perform to my highest degree and have my recovery slowed to a noticeable amount. Humans are omnivores. It is completely natural to kill and eat animals for us. I am just following the natural order. It is in fact peta that is going against the natural order of things. Especially supporting fire bombing terrorists like Ron Corranado.
                  The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Chicken is best served kind of fresh. I remember when I was younger, my mom and I would go down the street to the Kosher butcher. He would let me run in the back and chase the chickens. I would have to catch the one that we wanted to eat that night.

                    I'd chase these little ****ers around, and eventually grab one of them by their scrawny little necks. The fear in their eyes was astounding. I had their destiny in the palms and fingers of my little hands. Grasping the chicken tightly by its little neck, I would bring it to the Jewish butcher. It didn't make much noise, as I was choking it a bit, though it desperately tried its best to get away, it's little feet clawing at whatever it could.

                    The fat Jewish butcher would not so gently take my little shivering victim and put it in a funnel upside down. He would then take a big butcher knife, and with one stroke, sever the chicken's head from its body. Blood would drip onto the floor, as the chicken, in one last act of desperation, would shake in the funnel, its feet clawing at empty space. After a minute or so, it was no more. Off to that big KFC in the sky.

                    We would pull the chicken's feathers out, wash the skin, gut the little guy, and bring him home, so that mom could put all sorts of wonderful little spices on him, and throw him into the oven.

                    Yum.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


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                    • #70
                      mmmmmmm...mmm, that story sure does remind me of home.... my grandma's cooking, yep, all that. i think i have some pictures around....somewhere....lol...
                      ZhongwenMovies.com

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                      • #71
                        Doc is right of course the fresher the meat the better. If only I could catch and kill my own chickens daily my meals would be extra tasty....
                        The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
                          Well BTL, KFC is growing in China, is it a good sign? I heard the 14 Dalai Lama asked KFC to stay out of Tibet because of its unethical treatment of chicken. Maybe he has some compassionate insight about this?

                          You say i wont change anybody's opinions. But do you have opinions or knowledge? Do you know about non violence or do you believe? Maybe you should realize your ignorance. It is the first step in philosophy. Have you seen PETA's video on KFC? What do you know about chicken in a KFC plant? Please let me know what you really know, and if you dont know make an effort to know by watching some PETA's videos.

                          I dont want anybody to starve, that would be Hinayana i guess. But i d like people to know what they are doing. It seems i am often the only ignorant and vegetarian when people around me eat meat and KNOW what they do. They are so clever and i am so ignorant. They are even more clever than Ghandi or Sakyamuni.

                          About what it takes a civilisation to survive i dont know much but i know that million of hindus have been veg for ages and that their civilisation did not do worse than the West or China or Africa. Do you think if buddhism and hinduism and jainism promote vegetarianism it is just as a religious rule or because of compassion? Bodhidhamma came from India so if you want to practice Shaolin Gongfu i suggest you get inspired by indian civilisation and ways of life. And by the way, many believed that a civilisation needed slavery to exist.

                          And please i suggest you meditate on what you really know about non violence and on the importance of ignorance in philosophy, buddhism and hinduism. And watch Peta's videos about KFC and other questions if you dont really know what is modern animal industry. I know most people wont do it, for different reasons, but as a philosopher i can only regret people prefer to stay in ignorance. Would you please do it for me and animals and let me know what you think? Thanks.
                          I was a complete vegan for 5 yrs in my late teens early twenties, and albeit consistantly since to now, ( now 33,) I mostly only ever eat eggs fruit and veg, although wont not eat meat if that's all there is or if I need the nutrition.
                          I also had a good look at kfc many many yrs ago becaues of their kkk history.

                          and of course I have watched PETA medias, and considered very deeply all of those things and for many running yrs, and on my own of the principals I found in my own spirit without aany dogmatic prompting, sooo.. what I must noww think, is exactly what I said in my last post. you are so f*cking ignorant and your reasoning is soo bloody immature and scientifically uneducated about the way life and balance and survival works, that I may as well save my breath on you about it .

                          the whole world has nevver been hindu and animal consumption has AlWAYS been a part of the eco system. your emotive garbage, is redundant here.

                          mandate for vegetariansm overruled. @).

                          Blooming tianshi lotus.
                          Last edited by blooming tianshi lotus; 05-07-2008, 09:25 PM.

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                          • #73
                            We have a PETA thread. Move this nonsense there:



                            This thread is for more important things. Like what to teach a shaolin monk....
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Dear friends,

                              i had to do some zazen to somehow get out of the confusion of doc's description how to slaughter a chicken. Catch it while it wants to run away. Replace chicken by children or slave and you will still get the sensual pleasure of tasting it. Are you not american guys afraid of becoming Pinochet torture guy? Do you know the law of karma is wrong?

                              I d like to focus this one on ignorance. My friends, are you SAINTS, do you KNOW you are non violent when you eat and kill fish? Buddhism shares with the socratic initiation of philosophy the importance attached to ignorance. Socrates knowing he knew nothing was the wisest man in Greece, those who claimed knowledge seemed only to have opinions. By the way, Plato advocated a vegetarian diet, which may be linked to the dionysiac religion.

                              In buddhism, ignorance is the root of paticasamupada, the dependent origination of samsara, the cycle of violence and suffering. One of the aspect of ignorance is the ignorance of the suffering of living beings: we think we are non violent but we are not, we create suffering while we have the OPINION we are being non violent. Think of the millions of children that die every year without proper medicines while capitalist countries and companies keep their money.

                              In philosophy the medicine for ignorance is DOUBT. In buddhism the medicine for ignorance is letting go the EGO. By doubting, i put myself into question. To doubt and question is the heart of the socratic initiation. Zen master Dogen said to find oneself, you have to forget oneself.

                              So when i pull a fish out of the water am i acting according the fish will or according to my EGO? Remember in Mahayana temple they often have this practice of releasing fishes into the water. That is practicing emptiness.

                              And what about the craving for killing, the craving for the sensual pleasure of eating, the craving for the point of view that i am non violent? Shouldnt i let go the craving if i practice shaolin gongfu?

                              I hope it is not too much preaching, i try to use a socratic attitude by questioning and using question marks. But do you really want to question and meditate on the mahayanist compassion for the suffering of every living being? Do we not need to discuss this with our shaolin warriors friends? Not teaching but questioning.

                              Again, are you a SAINT, do you KNOW you are non violent when you eat?

                              Peace
                              Last edited by liutangsanzang; 05-09-2008, 07:31 AM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
                                In buddhism, ignorance is the root of paticasamupada, the dependent origination of samsara, the cycle of violence and suffering.
                                it would be more correct to only say ignorance is the root of violence and suffering.

                                dependent origination works independently of that. its nature. uprooting ignorance does not stop dependent origination.

                                dependent origination does not have a root origin, and samsara is not dependently originated. samsara is not a conditioned phenomena.

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