Whoring in Thailand

[doc]

phuket gazette
Posted 27 Mar 2003
By Fred
Email lofasz11@hotmail.com
City/Location Patong

Description Bargirl available immediately. No key money; just take over payments. Great exterior condition. Attitude may need slight adjustment. Will cook if hungry. Will clean for jewelry.

Expert in handphone operations, sofa management, and budget mishandling. Genuine reason for sale (owner bankrupt). Call now; this offer won't last!

Merry xmas.

[doc]

An interesting article from MSNBC, that possibly reflects a new trend:

Sex peddled as power in pornified girl culture
Does the trend build confidence in young women — or diminish it?


CHICAGO - Porn used to be relegated to a video hidden in the bottom drawer, or a magazine under the mattress. Today,

it’s part of everyday life.

Hugh Hefner’s girlfriends have become TV’s “girls next door.” Porn stars have MySpace pages and do voiceovers for video games. And while “porn on demand” is standard for hotel TVs and upgraded cable packages, it’s even easier to find it with a few clicks on the computer.

In April, more than a third of the U.S. Internet audience visited sites that fit into the online “adult” category, according to comScore Media Metrix. So the message is clear: In today’s world, sex doesn’t just sell. The pervasiveness of porn has made sexiness — from subtle to raunchy — a much-sought-after attribute online, at school and even at work.

Many agree that the trend has had a particularly strong influence on young women — in some cases, taking shape as an unapologetic embracing of sexuality and exhibitionism. “I am one of those girls,” says Holly Eglinton, a 31-year-old Canadian who recently won a talent search competition to appear as an unclothed newscaster on the Internet’s “Naked News.” She auditioned after meeting a producer for the show on a social networking site where she’s posted provocative photos of herself — an increasingly common practice.

For Eglinton, taking off her clothes for an Internet audience was freeing, fun and a little rebellious. “It’s something that sort of suits my personality,” she says. “I’m kind of an extrovert and a bit of a camera hog, a poser.”

While celebrities wearing sexed-up outfits isn't necessarily new, some experts say they're now the norm rather than the exception. It’s a prevalent sentiment in our look-at-me culture. But many wonder if it really is empowering, especially for younger women and girls who try to emulate what’s already on the Web.

Too often, educators and health professionals say, the results are cases of “Girls Gone Wild” — gone wild.

Michael Simon, a therapist and high school counselor in the San Francisco Bay area, has seen an increasing number of girls and young women in his private practice after episodes in which they undressed or masturbated in front of a Web cam for people they met online. “Instead of pornography or performative sexuality being one choice among many ways of being sexual, it’s essentially become the standard of sexiness,” says Simon. “It’s also the standard by which a man or woman is a prude, depending on how much they embrace that kind of sexuality.”

Yvonne K. Fulbright, a sexologist and author who co-hosts the “Sex Files” program on Sirius satellite radio, also has seen the shift in attitude. She’s posted messages on Craigslist looking for people who want to comment on various topics for the show — and, instead, often receives responses from young women who send descriptions of their breast and waist sizes.

“They’re under the impression that they can be the next big thing,” Fulbright says. “Unfortunately, for a lot of females that means taking off your clothes and being sexual. “It’s a really warped sense of what it means to be sexy.”

Indeed, there was a time when dancing for the masses in barely there outfits was the realm of music video stars and strippers. Then the Internet and reality TV came along, providing new platforms for young women to flaunt it for a shot at fame. In one hit prime-time series, for instance, eager young contestants perform soft-core porn dance routines in hopes of becoming the next member of The *****cat Dolls singing group.

The fascination with being “hot” also has made its way into the workplace, where confidence is often conveyed in the way one looks and dresses. “I would say that, in the world of Washington, D.C., power brokers, it’s important to be sexy, but in a more sophisticated, muted way,” says Charles Small, a 25-year-old young professional who works in the nation’s capital. That’s in contrast, he says, to cities such as Los Angeles and Miami, “where overt sexiness is more the status quo.”

Some employers — taken aback by the trend — have responded by setting tougher dress codes. Many school administrators have done the same. “As a high school teacher, I see 14-year-old girls dressing in a way that makes me shake my head. Where do they get that?” asks Dennis Brown, an educator and parent in Huntley, Ill., outside Chicago. Recently, he says his own 5-year-old daughter proclaimed, “Daddy, I look fat.”

“And I thought, ‘Oh my gosh, here we go,”’ he says. “Now I have to start deconstructing that mind-set.”

It’s a big topic of discussion among researchers. A 2007 report from the American Psychological Association compiled the findings of myriad studies, showing that the sexualization of young women and girls, in particular, can hurt them in many ways. Problems can include anything from low self-esteem and eating disorders to depression and anxiety.

Simon, the California therapist, has seen those symptoms in several of his young female patients. While boys tend to seek out porn for their own sexual pleasure, he sees a sexual disconnect with girls who exhibit provocative behavior they’re not ready for — from undressing online to performing oral sex on boys. “It doesn’t have anything to do with their sexual pleasure,” says Simon. “It has to do with pleasing somebody else — the grasping for attention. “As a parent, it makes me want to cry.”

And while they tell him they feel empowered, too often, he says they end up getting pegged as “sluts.”

Julie Albright, a sociologist at the University of Southern California, has noted that dynamic in her research. She’s working on a book about “players,” men who juggle more than one sex partner and earn a title of esteem for behavior that much of society still frowns upon for women. “If you ‘act like a man,’ in that sense, you’re trying to grab hold of that same kind of power, that same kind of lifestyle — and claim male privilege,” Albright says. “The problem is, you’re still female and it’s still a man’s world.”

Anna Stanley, a 25-year-old in Madison, Wis., knows all about that double standard. She also wonders if she and her peers place too much importance on the power of sexiness. “It seems like it stems out of the ‘Girl Power’ thing of the ‘90s gone awry — men objectify us, so let’s objectify ourselves and get something out of it. It’s not really progress,” she says. “But it’s something I have mixed feelings about — because sometimes I do it, too. “Sometimes you do dress up to get noticed and attention, and you do feel more confident when you do that.” She wishes there was more focus on helping women develop a healthy sense of their own sexuality.

Missy Suicide — founder of the “Suicide Girls” pinup Web site — couldn’t agree more. “I think that women shouldn’t be afraid of their sexuality. It’s a part of who we are. You shouldn’t be embarrassed and ashamed of your body and yourself,” says the 29-year-old entrepreneur, who lives in Los Angeles. But, she says, it shouldn’t be the sole focus.

She and the women on her site are known for challenging the stereotypes of beauty, with their tattoos and piercings and varying body types. “I get messages from girls all the time saying they never felt beautiful before because they never saw girls like themselves in magazines or on TV. Then they saw a girl like them on ‘Suicide Girls,”’ she says of the site, an online community that attracts a worldwide audience of both admirers and women who want to become nude pinups.

Victoria Sinclair, the lead anchor on “Naked News,” also sees herself as a role model. She left a job in the corporate world to join the show as lead anchor in 1999 — and never looked back. “Sometimes, there are moments when I think, ‘Oh my goodness what am I doing?”’ says Sinclair, who recently turned 40. “But I’m really OK with it.” She says it works for her because she has control over what she does on the show and has been allowed to age gracefully, without plastic surgery.

Still, many skeptics remain.

“To be sure, it can make you feel powerful to know that you are arousing strong feelings in other people, that you have their attention and admiration,” says Eileen Zurbriggen, a psychologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, who helped compile the APA report.

“This is the same sense of power experienced by charismatic rock stars and politicians. But politicians also wield other kinds of power. They can make actual changes to the legal, economic, and geopolitical landscapes — changes that have far-ranging impacts.

“Women,” she says, “might be better off developing other sources of power.”

"She left a job in the corporate world to join the show as lead anchor in 1999 — and never looked back." She was a secretary.

[Steve]

Barbie Cummings

The porn star's name is Barbie Cummings, she must have really wanted to get out of that ticket, because the cop is not even her type. 3 of the last movies she did are named, "Black Guys in White Thighs #2" , "Big Black Cock Addiction #3" and "Interracial Sperm Swallowing #2". So the cop who got his rod polished was pretty lucky for being a chubby white good ole boy and should not have bragged about the porn star to his cop friends, he might have gotten away with it.

[doc]

LOL. Sorry man. They're not ALL like that. Just some.

Here's the picture of the porn star who gave the trooper a bj to get out of a ticket.

Tell me she doesn't like what she does... LOL

[baiwanxi]

And then my walls came crashing down.

I've always liked the thought that by being nice and treating my "girls" with a bit of respect that they might normaly be used to that I'm playing the "captin save a ho" card. (god I love that line) But I've always liked to tell myself that these girls, ALL of these girls have had some f**ked up situation that put them where they are.

I'm not sure why. I guess it feels dirty to sleep with a girl who gets down with numerous guys every day and does it not because she has to, but because she likes it.

Girls, girls, girls, girls.

Man I'm a sucker....... A sucker with a weak will....

[doc]

It must have been around five years ago. maybe more.

It was just another boring night in Las Vegas. So, I and a few of my friends did what we occasionally did on those just another boring nights in Las Vegas. We went to church. Pay some homage to the princesses.

Vegas has tons of strip clubs, and even more young ladies who are willing to bare most of it for a few bucks. It's entertaining not in a visual sort of way, as most people would imagine, but more in an interactive sort of way. What comes out of the mouthes of princesses on any given night can range from utterly bizzare to absolutely comical.

She came plodding out of nowhere. I just had not seen her coming. Some young thing, who later claimed to have been 19 (this was back in the times when in certain areas of Vegas, you had to be 18 to work in these clubs). She had the usual and commonly accepted tight fluorescent scanty thing on, which made her stick out amongst the hundred or so other young scantily clad pretty young things running around. Can't really remember her face, or most anything else about her, other than her approach.

The usual approach.

"Wanna dance?" They lunge into your lap, curl up close to your chest, and reliably say those famous two words.

To me, she looked like she was 16. Looked far too young to be in a place like that. I was a bit astonished, not only at her young appearance, but at the speed and secrecy she had used to capture my lap without my knowing, or being able to prepare for it.

"Wanna dance?" The limits of her vocabulary were astonishing. "Huh? Wanna?"

I was so surprised, that my usual ability to return superlative conversation with even more superlative conversation, was stunted. I resorted to just a simple, honest, straightforward response. The only thing that could have been uttered, given those circumstances.

"Does your mommy know that you're working here?"

And, without blinking an eye, I got a simple, honest, straightforward response back.

"She's right over there, do you want to ask her?"



Mom, in her late thirties, was stripping, and competing for cash, with the younger girls. Including her daughter.

So, I'll step up to the plate and throw a curveball into this conversation.

I'll suggest that some women LIKE being whores.

[baiwanxi]

Interesting. I had heard, ever since I knew what a prostitute was, that that was going on in Thailand. Nice to know that, even if it is, it's not "accepted" like I was under the impression it was. Of course, I only heard from friends who hadn't been there either so...........

[doc]

Y have yet to see any 12 year old, 14 year old, or 16 year old whores here, as I've heard Thailand has the're share.

I have yet to see an underage girl in any of these "bars" that are prevalent in some areas of Phuket, Bangkok, etc. If that sort of shit is going on, it must be well hidden. And from what I understand, the police here are really on the lookout for that crap.

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's just not "visible". But, who am I to judge, I don't go looking for it.

[baiwanxi]

Yeah, I definitely put myself out there to be judged. And if people do, that's fine. I try my best not to judge others, but I am human and still find myself doing it from time to time. It would be easy to look at myself and think of me as a perverted American getting his jollies in China if I didn't participate in the loving up of a whore. So I can understand.

The difference with me and many others that may "participate" is that I like to talk to the girls. I truley don't see them as less than human for what they do. I like them to know that. That's how I came across this girls story.

Again, I would much prefer to have a girlfriend here, and in fact I'm currently working on that. But I don't. I also don't have many friends here. And female interaction is something I miss horribly. I get that, to an extent, when I pay for it.
I'm not trying to justify why I do it, just putting myself out there so you all can see what's going on in my head.

But now we're a bit off of the subject, so let me bring it back home. I have yet to see any 12 year old, 14 year old, or 16 year old whores here, as I've heard Thailand has the're share. And that's just plain wrong in my book !!! That grown men, 30, 40, 50's would go to Thailand just to get a 12 year old,,,,, now that's some sick shit !

But who am I to judge. ha

[flow]

Is it the oil in the ground that threw the bomb??? No, it's the ruthless moneymaking company that has the means to get away with this because they make so much money by slling the oil.

Alright that's pretty much what I was trying to say when I said that:

We are the ****ing infection that destroys whatever it touches. THe important is not the concepts, it's the facts

But hey it doesn't matter.

I find that my twisted answer actually helped me to get a much more comprehsensible answer from you, and I can see what you meant much better now. It's just the way you wrote it at first that got me confused regarding where you were standing. I now understand that if one of your clients really wanna get laid you'll help him find the right person, so that at least it doesn't encourage the really vasty local mafias, and that's a rare thing...That's cool.

About Malaysia, they may be whores hidden a bit everywhere (i've never been to Borneo), but it obviously is not the reputation of the country. A sex tourist would rather choose Holland, Thailand and cie...But it doesn't mean there is not whoring at all, but the proportions are just not that high...Furthermore, I'd be really careful because if caught with one over there by the religious (the ones you can't bribe) you could end up in serious trouble (including 20 slashes with a whip on your back or worst).

Sarcasm always has a nice ring to it, doesn't it. But this was not the right time to use it.

The fact that you cut and paste it like this says more about you than it does about the travel organisation.

Well it's true that I could do something like:

I am a nice guy and a hate assholes!

Into

I am a asshole and I hate nice guy

That wouldn't be very nice innit. But I just like to be offensive in my arguments so the discussion is not only a "yes I agree" or "no I disagree"...Just to get people started, whether it annoys them or not. And I'm happy because it allowed you to give more details on what you do. A nice argument is a dull argument innit?

Free whoring

I meant "pimp free whoring"

So let me ask you this. Is a whore evil? No, it's just that a lot of people want to turn them into moneymaking machines. You as a person can choose to participate in this or not.

I just pity these girls, just read Baiwanxi story, she is being used as a **** doll 5 times a day at 19, and her future is next to screwed...I still see them as victims more as initiators. However I understand they are some nyphomaniac around who do that for fun, or who just really love doing it...I just say that's a relatively small percentage of them.

I did some volunteer work with child refugees who end up in prostitution. Horrible stories, makes your heart bleed and yet some of them, once they turn 18 and have been provided with a flat and a job, reuturn to their pimps because according to them it`s less work than 9 to 5.

That's what they'd say, but we're not in their souls. I just think that after years of childhood prostitution they just can't be "Mr normal" that easily.

Baiwanxi,

Flow, you sound like your pretty much against prostitution in any form

Yea I am against it, I can't help but to think it's wrong. I just feel bad for these girls, sometimes if I see one in the street I'm like what if it was your mom or your sister, or your child...I just coudn't accept it as normal, cool, it's ok, that's how it works.

That's all I can say, as men we have needs, getting laid is number 4 (after Drink Seat Sleep). What you do is waht you do and I certainly wouldn't juge you on that, and at least you have the balls to talk about it. I respect you for that.


Doc,

I do medical missions in the Philippines. I send money to families in the Philippines and Thailand. I create jobs with my school here to help other Thai families. I support the local police financially. I make no money on any of these ventures myself.

But, for whatever I do here and there, it doesn't make a dent in the whole problem. The issue is too large. The people here get by doing what they think they can do best. And whoring, though we westerners really look down upon it, is accepted behavior here. No one besmirches any young woman for doing it. IN fact, in the Philippines, families send their daughters to some of these whorehouses to make money for the rest of them.

You do more than anyone for these people, don't forget that if you helped one person even tiny bit only you still made a big difference. One person IS a big difference. Two is huge and three is enormous.

Call me an Idealist, but you see, I don't go to Church, I don't follow any religious shit, I might be the greates sinner of all times, but I am still a Christian. Not the good Samaritan, not "Mr perfect", not "Mr blame you", just plainly accepting that living ina ****ed up world does not leave place for pessimism, when you have nothing else that a bit af air in your lungs for a couple of years...

[Carona]

in my previous post I tried to talk about prostitution in two different ways:

1. The ****ed up way, which is most prevalent and I didn't think needed to be explained by me.

2. A more respectful way.

I tried to separate the two but apparently it seems I didn't make myself clear enough. That's why I'll reply to yours quotes, Flow.

 Kuala Lumpur = capital town of the country 
Malaysia = the coutry itself

U don't speak of the over crouded touristic town as if you were including the whole country...Kuala Lumpur is the less representative town of the country. I've gone to places tours unfortunately don't go...It's as absurd as comparing New York with the whole of the States.

Kuala Lumpur houses almost 1.5 million people in a country of 26 million. I think it's save to make a reference to KL when talking about Malaysia. It's true that almost all country make distinctions between their capital and the rest of the country, but that does not make prostitution in Malaysia non-existent.

Before touring groups in Malaysia I had visited the place by myself and you might not take it from me but I saw prostitution in other places as well. Wether it's peninsular Malaysia or Borneo, it doesn't matter, they have whores. I am not saying every place is packed with them but they are there. In KL it's obvious, in Kota Kinabalu it's less and in Kota Bharu it pretty hidden.

In Belgium you'll find a lot of whores in Brussels, but not in a lot of the smaller towns. That doesn't mean I can't say we have whores in Belgium

For your next reaction:

     Quote:                                                 People are free to do with their bodies whatever they want.                                    
Obviously not everyone?--->

     Quote:                    She didn't make enough money according to her pimps so they decided to break her leg and put it back together with a twist so she would collect more money begging

Like I said, I tried to show two different ways of prostitution, a ****ed up and another way. If you go cutting and pasting my words they obviously contradict because they're two different things.

She was free to accept the proposition to go to western Europe when some mafia guys lied to her and told her they would have a job for her. If people in Albania got better information she might have known to say no. She thought she would have a brighter future this way. But I am not saying she got herself into it. The mafia tricked her.

next one:

     Quote:                    in my groups I do not want people going to whores who are part of some kind of organisations that afterwards takes away the money she just made by being humiliated              
 Very kind though, a good humiliation is worth decent money...Pure charity?

I'll refrase this for you: In my groups, where I have no control whatsoever over who and what kind of person signs up, I do not want adult people going to whores. If there happens to be a participant that seems desperate to get laid and it looks like in free time the first thing he'll do is find a hooker then I prefer the whore not to be part a mafiastyle organisation that abuses the girls to do the humiliating work and after it take away their money.

In my 5 years of experience this has happened very few times and I was not pleased with it.

You can read the whole thing again and change the tourists for a local. Because prostitution is not just a tourist thing.

next:

     Quote:                    a non profit organisation which tries to promote travelling in a respectful manner towards nature, local culture, etc. We travel in small groups ( from 5 to 10) and try to interact as much as posible with the locals.               Interesting way of interacting with the locals I have to say...It's a very deep interaction.

That was just too easy. Sarcasm always has a nice ring to it, doesn't it. But this was not the right time to use it.
The organisation has its rules and ethics. People who sign up not always share these views but just looked for the cheapest way to travel as being non profit makes it the cheapest.
The interaction I refer to is for example going to a small town in The Gambia, work the land, take part in the daily chores and help build the local school during the day and at night sit down and drink tea or dance to their drums.

It's just plain obvious that promoting prostitution is not part of our idea of travelling. The fact that you cut and paste it like this says more about you than it does about the travel organisation.

     Quote:                    But I've also talked to girls who just plain love what they do. Beautiful young women who go out to have fun and if they like some guy take him home to be ****ed by him and get paid for it. Girls without pimps who decide wether or not and by whom they get ****ed. 
                                 
Sounds cool, there should be some undergraduate course in free Whoring, we could all send our childen so they have a wonderful future and a happy life...But what happens when she gets old and ugly?

Free whoring? I wrote "...and get paid for it", also implying that they set the price. There are actually students who pay part of their studies by prostitution and leave it when they graduate and get a good job.

An example: A student flat with scandinavian interchange students in Spain. The international students are all about parties and having sex with various nationalities, and these girls are also. The parties got very expensive and so after a while they started charging the guys who they had sex with at the parties at their place. They had fun, had sex with guys they chose and threw a new party with that money. They never felt humiliated by anyone, they thought the guys were silly to pay them, because they would have gone to bed with them anyway.

When she gets old and ugly? I once read an article about a Belgian or Dutch hooker who had received customers in her own house her whole lifetime and she was over 60 and still kept working even if financially she didn`t need to anymore.

You might hold a different discourse on Drugs if you were an ex druggie, on whores if you were a 50 years old retired whore, on oil if your whole family had been killed by the bomb of a conqueror who just wants oil, on weapons if one day they had turned on you and taken away one of your limbs...

You think Colombian drug cartels killed all those people because they were high on drugs?? No, they kill because there is a huge market paying big money to keep the industry going and make incredible amounts of money.

Is it the oil in the ground that threw the bomb??? No, it's the ruthless moneymaking company that has the means to get away with this because they make so much money by slling the oil.

You think a machete will cut of your arm by itself??? It's the person holding it.

Is a stupid little rock responsable for civil war in Sierra Leone??? No, it`s not. It the money that can be made by selling the diamonds that corrupts the minds of people.

So let me ask you this. Is a whore evil? No, it's just that a lot of people want to turn them into moneymaking machines. You as a person can choose to participate in this or not.

It's the money of the customer that keeps this going. As long as there are people willing to pay for sex, there will be prostitution. And as long as there are people who don`t care about how this affects the girls horrible situations will exist.

It's basic economics. If there is a demand, someone will provide, Wether it's bread, cars, oil, diamonds, weapons, drugs or sex.

I did some volunteer work with child refugees who end up in prostitution. Horrible stories, makes your heart bleed and yet some of them, once they turn 18 and have been provided with a flat and a job, reuturn to their pimps because according to them it`s less work than 9 to 5.


You've got poor and rich, and a lot of poor are willing to do anything if paid for by the rich. The rich should have the moral not to amke the poor do some of the things they make them do.


So what do you think about porn? people getting paid to have sex on camera. You think it's ok to buy a porno flick? You never knowthe reasons why these people took the money for the job. There's famous rich pornstars and there poor suckers who deeply regret they did it.
What about dating services that get paid big money for presenting european and american man a list of eastern euopean, african and asian women to get married and fly them over. Is this prostitution?
What about Cuban boys and Girls that seduce tourists to make them fall in love with them to marry them and get papers to leave the country. Once they leave the country, they divorce and leave the tourist heartbroken. Is this prostitution or are they just ways to get out of the country and their poverty?

It's not always easy to judge.

Well that's about what I have to say on the subject

[baiwanxi]

Flow, you sound like your pretty much against prostitution in any form. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you are, there's no reason to say your not and then criticize someone for helping another find a girl who get's to keep the cash...

Anyway, I agree that, most likely, this buisness will get to the woman/man doing it eventually, but I thought I would just spread a bit of my knowlage on this matter.

I'm not too proud to say that I do participate in prostitution. I didn't come to China looking for that but in my small town it's in your face. I would much rather have a girlfriend and do that with her, but as it turns out most of the single Chinese women are virgins and will remain that way untill they get married. No Shit ! And I have no intentions of living here for two or more years and not getting laid. I know that may not speak so highly of me but it's the truth.

So I wanted to address the question "What do we actually know about these people, what the're going through every day ? I'm sure many of the prostitutes in the world have shitty lives.
One of the girls that I've "visited" I've begun to get to know a bit. We talk a lot and she loves to listen to my Ipod. She loves American music !!! So she's 19 and cute as can be. We've talked all about her profession. Here's her story. Again I know this is only one case, but I thought I would tell it as it IS one of the many answers to your question.

Her family is rather poor and could only afford to send one of the two sisters to school. Unfortunately for Xiaoxiao her sister was a better student so Xiaoxiao's education stopped at primary school. Because of that she couldn't get a decent job of any kind. Cleaning people in China are usually older, and McDonalds employees need an education to get the job. Even most restaurants didn't want her. She had a friend who's a Ho and was making big bucks but that job wasn't for Xiaoxiao, atleast not yet. So at 17 she met a nice, slightly older guy, and hoped he would take her out of this shitty situation. Well, he wanted to f**k even though they weren't married. She didn't want to but was afraid if she didn't he would leave and if she did he might make her his wife. Too bad she got pregnant. Well a 17 year old Chinese girl living with her parents isn't allowed to date, much less have a baby, so she had to get an abortion. Of course the guy split. Now she was in debt, not a virgin, and not feeling very good about herself. So she started to work with her friend, the Ho.... Now she's 19. She usually has four to five guys a nite. She doesn't work under a pimp but usually works with one because it's easier to to find clients. She hates doing it for a living and every time she has a couple dollars saved up she usually stops and tries to find a different job, but thank's to her lack of an education she goes back to whoring. So now she's doing just what Doc said, looking for a man to once again take her away from her shitty situation. She seems to want me to be that man, and a tiny piece of me would like to play captian save a ho ! But I'm dating two other girls here, one of which already has my heart.

So that's the story. How does she feel ? Like shit every day and every time she lays down and spreads her legs. She said she hates herself for doing it and wants to cry nearly every time she does. The job hasn't gotten to her yet. She's still a wonderful, sweet, precious girl at heart. Maybe one of the times she stoops working she'll find another job and never go back to selling herself. Who knows. Maybe she'll meet a man to marry her. She's even invited me to come back to her house and meet her parents ! That's what boyfriends and girlfriends here do when the want to get married. What ever she does, she'll have to do it soon as Most of the prostitutes in China don't keep whoring past 21. 19 is the average age for the whores here.

Theres my two cents....

[doc]

Your argument is valuable but not ultimate. I've worked hard in Mac Donalds for a year flipping burgers when I could have followed some friends in the drug business and make twice as much working 200 times as less...

But this is not new, the easy way doesn't exist, you alway are detroyed by it at a certain point.[\quote]

Selling drugs is illegal, prosecuted, and not commonly accepted behavior in Asia. Prostitution is illegal, not prosecuted, and very commonly accepted, in Asia, and BY Asians. Most of the men who frequent Philippine whores, for example, are Philippine men. You find the same thing in Thailand, it's just not done in the "western" areas where tourists are found.

[quote}I was trying to talk about empathy. About imagining yourself in somebody else's situation. And about compation and humility towards the lifes of people that we are 1000ds of miles away from knowing how they actually really feel.

I'm very empathetic touwards these people. And I usually go out of my way to do what I can to help them. I do medical missions in the Philippines. I send money to families in the Philippines and Thailand. I create jobs with my school here to help other Thai families. I support the local police financially. I make no money on any of these ventures myself.

But, for whatever I do here and there, it doesn't make a dent in the whole problem. The issue is too large. The people here get by doing what they think they can do best. And whoring, though we westerners really look down upon it, is accepted behavior here. No one besmirches any young woman for doing it. IN fact, in the Philippines, families send their daughters to some of these whorehouses to make money for the rest of them.

It's not a perfect world. And Asian "culture" is not western culture. I understand your viewpoints however, and I do agree with you.

[flow]

I've guided groups in Europe, Africa, Asia and latin America and I never found a country free of prostitution. I had groups in Malasia and saw a lot of prostitution in Kuala Lumpur, men, women and children being offered. The statement about malaysia seems very naive to me.

Kuala Lumpur = capital town of the country
Malaysia = the coutry itself

U don't speak of the over crouded touristic town as if you were including the whole country...Kuala Lumpur is the less representative town of the country. I've gone to places tours unfortunately don't go...It's as absurd as comparing New York with the whole of the States.

Whoring is said to be the oldest profession in the world and I don't see anything wrong with it

Me neither as long as my sisters and cousins don't have to do it...

People are free to do with their bodies whatever they want.

Obviously not everyone?--->

She didn't make enough money according to her pimps so they decided to break her leg and put it back together with a twist so she would collect more money begging

in my groups I do not want people going to whores who are part of some kind of organisations that afterwards takes away the money she just made by being humiliated

Very kind though, a good humiliation is worth decent money...Pure charity?

a non profit organisation which tries to promote travelling in a respectful manner towards nature, local culture, etc. We travel in small groups ( from 5 to 10) and try to interact as much as posible with the locals.

Interesting way of interacting with the locals I have to say...It's a very deep interaction.

But I've also talked to girls who just plain love what they do. Beautiful young women who go out to have fun and if they like some guy take him home to be ****ed by him and get paid for it. Girls without pimps who decide wether or not and by whom they get ****ed.

Sounds cool, there should be some undergraduate course in free Whoring, we could all send our childen so they have a wonderful future and a happy life...But what happens when she gets old and ugly?

money, money, money, is the root of all evil

More realistically, in more then 60.000 years of existence, humans did not wait for the creation of money to show signs of evil.

Drugs, diamonds, whores, oil, weapons are not evil in my opinion. But all these things are the reason for a lot of suffering and bloodshed.

We are the ****ing infection that destroys whatever it touches. THe important is not the concepts, it's the facts. And as long as you haven't suffered the consequences of one of these personally (and this I don't wish to anyone), you can't talk about them objectively. You might hold a different discourse on Drugs if you were an ex druggie, on whores if you were a 50 years old retired whore, on oil if your whole family had been killed by the bomb of a conqueror who just wants oil, on weapons if one day they had turned on you and taken away one of your limbs...

Doc,

Maybe your anger should be better directed at the American, British and European men that travel to Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines, etc, than towards those countries and their governments themselves.

My anger is directed towards anyone who selfishly and openly exploits poverty in order to benefit themselves more and more in any way.

Your argument is valuable but not ultimate. I've worked hard in Mac Donalds for a year flipping burgers when I could have followed some friends in the drug business and make twice as much working 200 times as less...

But this is not new, the easy way doesn't exist, you alway are detroyed by it at a certain point.

I was trying to talk about empathy. About imagining yourself in somebody else's situation. And about compation and humility towards the lifes of people that we are 1000ds of miles away from knowing how they actually really feel.

I can give you a smile and be about to kill myself. I can look like the funniest dude ever and be the most depressive man on earth. I can have a beautiful looking body but be rotten from the inside. I can talk, brag about my success when I am actually loosing my job and falling appart.

What do we actually know about these people? About what they go through everyday? This no-one will SAY. They might TELL but they'll not SAY...You and I won't see...We'll only see one side of it, usually the one we want to see innit?

[Carona]

why the **** can't we write the word **** in a ****ing thread about ****ing whores who's profession is just that: to ****.