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  • #31
    Originally posted by Maestro View Post
    martial artists like myself who(stop laughing) are trying to develope a higher level of conciousness

    maybe i should fight..always wanted to be in pride

    hmmmm
    Lmfao.

    Yeah, sure... Imagine that.
    "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by onesp1ng View Post
      i'm not being deliberately belligerent at all. that's your and MS's shtick.

      but, of course, what is 'real' gongfu. from my understanding it's simple: 活到老學到老. (aka: lifelong learning.) people get caught up in the fighting aspect of it because, at this time, they're still more destructive than they are constructive. that's the process, from hard to soft. yet, what about the philosophies that make up these arts? i mean, if you internalize them, how important is smashing someone's head open exactly?

      I go back to my initial point when i first came on this forum.

      Martial arts are originally for WAR.

      Meditating and being a good person is Buddhist teaching.
      Which, in China is the main religion, all be it there are many different types.

      Lifelong learning of how to fight and smash people up.

      its for war, its for killing and making a mess, and IF it goes to MMA, whoever gets in the ring will get spanked because they can't use their art properly.

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      • #33
        fu jow its funny how you say its for war but if you went to war like they did in the past you would get murdered because you dont have a clue about using weapons, after all your the one who said "we dont train with weapons we train with sticks sometimes" lolo

        training your mind and spirit are something that just happen when your training any real martial art, like a side effect i suppose.


        the difference with shaolin arts and other arts is shaolin arts focus on the mind/intent and spirit alote more but really with a good teacher you wouldnt know it even if your were doing it..it just happens.
        "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Maestro View Post
          fu jow its funny how you say its for war but if you went to war like they did in the past you would get murdered because you dont have a clue about using weapons, after all your the one who said "we dont train with weapons we train with sticks sometimes" lolo

          training your mind and spirit are something that just happen when your training any real martial art, like a side effect i suppose.


          the difference with shaolin arts and other arts is shaolin arts focus on the mind/intent and spirit alote more but really with a good teacher you wouldnt know it even if your were doing it..it just happens.
          Yep ok thats fine, but,
          A) im not going to war
          B) If i get into a fight i aint gonna use a sword.
          C) Trying to be an enlightened being it NOT what it was originally intended for.

          Yes i too have mellowed and feel like i don't need to fight, I like Zen.
          But nurturing trees as an analogy, although good and i understand, isn't what this thread is about.

          Will Kung Fu ever go to MMA, i hope not because it would be a waste and another reason for people to dis the art.

          Wonder how many people can actually use a sword, and by that i don't mean wave it about and try to look pretty?

          Its not wu shu, its killing people.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Fu Jow Pai View Post
            I go back to my initial point when i first came on this forum.

            Martial arts are originally for WAR.

            Meditating and being a good person is Buddhist teaching.
            Which, in China is the main religion, all be it there are many different types.

            Lifelong learning of how to fight and smash people up.

            its for war, its for killing and making a mess, and IF it goes to MMA, whoever gets in the ring will get spanked because they can't use their art properly.

            Meditation is not only a buddhist teaching. There is meditation also in taoism, and yoga. And other various arts.

            Being a good person is not only a buddhist teaching. You see that everywhere in all religions.



            I think that you would be surprised, cowpie. If you actually knew anything at all about what you talk about, you would know that first of all, war has been around since the dawn of time, secondly, People who fight in wars are not "born to kill" "murder machines" they are just people, usually with families to defend, or people to protect.

            Not everyone who learns or practices martial arts is thinking "gee i want to learn how to destroy and maim and kill." Some people do it as a form of self improvement, some people do it to stay healthy, was it made for these purposes? who cares? It works, and thats what people use it for.

            Training and doing martial arts can keep you healthy. It is also a way to reach true enlightenment in ancient chinese philosophy, along with othr things like calligraphy, painting, etc.

            To see martial arts as a tool to kill murder and destroy, is just being closed-minded to all of the other possibilities it can hold. And is only seen that way by people who try to over glorify themselves.. And who say things like

            "Martial arts are originally for WAR." "Im a martial artist to i can KIIIIIILLL YOU"

            Martial arts stem from, not only, being able to maim and kill... But from the concept of empowerment, defense. And in ancient times, honor...

            People obtained wisdom from fighting, such as how to use a valley as a choke point, or how to ambush the enemy in a pincer attack, or how to use leverage to break a mans bones, especially warriors of days past. But there are also other things that can be learned through war,...Extremely vital lessons, such as "mutually assured destruction" lol, or, to spare innocent lives. Or how about "peace" thats a good one.

            The original name for chinese martial arts is Wu Shu, which translates to english as "to stop a spear" So from here, we can see the the origins of CMA in the least, were intended to "stop a spear" as opposed to weilding and killing with one.



            A true warrior knows not only how to kill, but to protect, to defend, to bring about change.

            Your thinking is flawed. Here is an example. I have in my hand a sharp pencil. In your frame of mind, i would say, "the concept of sharp stick is originally used for stabbing and/or cutting things" so therefore its use as a pencil is irrelevant.

            In this way you are wrong, and its only due to the fact that you want to inflate your ego, by proclaiming things about you that arent true.

            Dont worry, i think we all do that now and then, but there is a point where it becomes noticeable...
            "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Fu Jow Pai View Post
              Yep ok thats fine, but,
              A) im not going to war

              So you're telling me that, martial arts is used for war, killing, making a mess.

              But you're not going to war, so why do you study martial arts?

              You tend to contradict yourself like this all the time.
              "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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              • #37
                Originally posted by master splinter View Post
                So you're telling me that, martial arts is used for war, killing, making a mess.

                But you're not going to war, so why do you study martial arts?

                You tend to contradict yourself like this all the time.
                Im not going to war so i don't train to use a sword, or a gun for that matter.

                But, i do train to defend my friends and loved ones. In 'real situations' so to speak.

                By this i mean that it is highly unlikely i am going to be attacked in my life by someone with a sword (for example). However, it is a lot more likely that a person would attack me with their fists, or a bottle, even a knife. These things have all happened, and will probably happen again at some point.

                I don't think i have contradicted myself, i think that what i have said has been misconstrewed and picked to pieces. Which, from a bunch of people that sell themseves as spiritual people, (thats not necesarrily directed at you) is frankly a bit shit.

                To be honest im sick of having all your point of views rammed down my throat, theres too much bullshit.

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                • #38
                  i'm only suggesting that it's a very narrow way of looking at the issue. that's all... like i said, you can take it or leave it. but, in time, people tend to look back and realize that they '不知天高地厚' don't understand the immensity of heaven and earth.' (ie. have an exaggerated opinion of their abilities).

                  but it's interesting how people take things and make them their own and then defend them and say this is what it is etc...meant to be...and that's all it can be. for example, saying meditation is buddhist, and so on, shows a lot of immaturity on the subject.

                  fu, have you ever been to asia? read the classics of doaism, buddhism, confucious, or studied chinese medicine?

                  because, if not, my friend, i'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but these are the things that make up the essence of the arts you study. and without them, anything anyone says other than kill and war fighting etc, well, will always appear to you 'spiritual.' like mumbojumbo../ etc...

                  but is it? reeeeeelllly?? :-)
                  ZhongwenMovies.com

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by onesp1ng View Post
                    i'm only suggesting that it's a very narrow way of looking at the issue. that's all... like i said, you can take it or leave it. but, in time, people tend to look back and realize that they '不知天高地厚' don't understand the immensity of heaven and earth.' (ie. have an exaggerated opinion of their abilities).

                    but it's interesting how people take things and make them their own and then defend them and say this is what it is etc...meant to be...and that's all it can be. for example, saying meditation is buddhist, and so on, shows a lot of immaturity on the subject.

                    fu, have you ever been to asia? read the classics of doaism, buddhism, confucious, or studied chinese medicine?

                    because, if not, my friend, i'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but these are the things that make up the essence of the arts you study. and without them, anything anyone says other than kill and war fighting etc, well, will always appear to you 'spiritual.' like mumbojumbo../ etc...

                    but is it? reeeeeelllly?? :-)
                    No you've missed it again.

                    I follow Zen.

                    And i'm not ignorant to to how the philosophies are incorporated into the arts. In fact, i meditate to perfect by art.

                    you are doing the same as what i am i guess.
                    We both have strong beliefs, we are both preaching to the quire.

                    In philosophical (basic) terms, you are ying, and i am yang.

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                    • #40
                      no, you're the one dividing. i am not. and i know that, because i used to do the same stuff.

                      so you 're say that you're buddhist? this is curious, especially for someone who says the arts are for made for killing. but regardless, what's the goal of buddhism, then, according to your sect?

                      And i'm not ignorant to to how the philosophies are incorporated into the arts. In fact, i meditate to perfect by art.
                      you meditate to perfect your art? to kill?

                      if you're not ignorant to how the philosophies are incorporated into the arts, can you read chinese? do you understand tmc? the classics? etc? seems you're skirting around the questions a bit. but i do understand if you'd rather not put any thought into it, or if you'd just prefer to 'stick to your guns.' it's hard to let go of what we think we know...who we think we are... etc..
                      ZhongwenMovies.com

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by onesp1ng View Post
                        no, you're the one dividing. i am not. and i know that, because i used to do the same stuff.

                        so you 're say that you're buddhist? this is curious, especially for someone who says the arts are for made for killing. but regardless, what's the goal of buddhism, then, according to your sect?



                        you meditate to perfect your art? to kill?

                        if you're not ignorant to how the philosophies are incorporated into the arts, can you read chinese? do you understand tmc? the classics? etc? seems you're skirting around the questions a bit. but i do understand if you'd rather not put any thought into it, or if you'd just prefer to 'stick to your guns.' it's hard to let go of what we think we know...who we think we are... etc..
                        I can not read Chinese, don't know what tmc is, what classics etc?
                        Yeah i perfect to have the ability to kill, doesn't mean i will use it.

                        Bodhidharma, check it.

                        One is not the same as the other.

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                        • #42
                          this is where onesp1ng points and laughs cause him and uwe are probably the only ones who read classical chinese here. regardless chinese thought is a part of chinese martial arts they do not make up or define the arts

                          and fighting is obviously important, i wouldnt say kill this kill that like fu jow but in the past if you couldnt fight what good were you, most chinese were and ARE illiterate and cant even read classical chinese. these people use human shit for manure lol they arent exactly what youd call a scholar haha

                          honestly imo the best martial artists were most definately the ones fighting and innovating on a regular basis, where as the scholars were the ones "dividing"
                          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                          • #43
                            there are others here who read classical chinese, like lfj and liu. and no one is laughing and/or pointing fingers. in fact, you and fu have just as much ability and potential to learn it as i and others have. that's the point, really, though i'm not actually directing any of this at you. in time, i think you're going to figure it out. but, with that said, if chinese thought and language don't make up and define what chinese martial arts is, what does? the japanese can't define american baseball, or hiphop...even if it sometimes may appear that way. they redefine it.... and that, in my opinion, is what is continually happening with gongfu. this also happens within chinese culture itself, but that's different and another topic for another day.
                            ZhongwenMovies.com

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                            • #44
                              One is not the same as the other.
                              are you sure? how do you know?

                              that's actually one of the basic tenants of yin/yang theory.
                              ZhongwenMovies.com

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                              • #45
                                chinese martial arts are very complicated, and thier history isnt certain. also, many systems have little in common besides similar stancse and conditioning. of course similaritys in concepts etc are common, these same concepts are found in other arts unrelated to chinas martial arts.

                                then again u have to consider asia as a whole when considering chinese martial arts imo and thats why i say what i said. for instance, the direct influence of tibetan systems on many southern styles is obvious.

                                atm i have an hour to shower and make food before work so im gonna leave it at that, ill write more later
                                "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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