Shaolin Wahnam Institute Redux: Wong Kiew Kit

[dogchow108]

Fa Hui, is that avatar picture from Cheng Ting Hua Bagua?

[arhat]

my Chinese sucks, lol...

for the first few years I had my own pinyin.

[Fa Hui]

I thought that this is what you meant, but I was not entirely sure. My Chinese is not so great.

Thanks for the clarification though.

[arhat]

san bao di zi?

"San Bao"- three treasures, or as SYM explains, treasure is not a true concept, treasure gives a price or value, these three things can't have a value given to them.

"Di Zi" disciple...it's another way of referencing the Shaolin Discipleship Ceremony, otherwise also referred to as Gui Yi Fo, Fa, Sen...Fo, Fa, Sen meaning Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.

Shaolin's Taking Refuge ceremony is different from standard refuge ceremonies because of a blending with confucian gong fu family disciple traditions- it's a mixed bag.

I would think that we could expect any inner door disciple in a monastic tradition to know that, and would find it very difficult to believe that a high level monk would transmit his knowledge without formal ceremony.

[Fa Hui]

san bao di zi?

[mortal]

LOLO Wow doc your a real scumbag! That thread changed my whole veiw of you. Prostitutes! For shame.

How could you be for the Iraq war? When we are just over there testing out our 50 calibers on women and children? Target practice yahoo!

Liberal opinions are always good for a laugh. Can't live with them! Can't shoot them in the face!

[onesp1ng]

What do you say to this type of """" though, when the will of some organization empties the mind of the people involved and then one of them stands before you, sharing their enlightenment, visions.....etc? I mean I've seen more than an orange tree in my life, but I'm not running around exclaiming the utter power in it.


g

[doc]

For example, I talked with a woman yesterday who gave up all her possessions to follow the path that God laid for her. Now, mind you, she is an author of two books, a writer for a newspaper and the mother of two very lovable girls. She can make money easily, needs to, can ask her mother or husband for it, but chose not too, and then wondered what could be done while forgoing meals and simultaneously praying for answers. Upon asking her pastor what the vision of an orange tree might mean, he said, "I think it means that you should also become a pastor."

I'm sorry, but when I hear this type of stuff, I think of this type of stuff:

http://x.russbo.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1546

Damn, that's becoming my favorite thread.

Mental illness affects the intelligent and successful just as it affects the bums on the street. And attempts at escaping reality can affect all. Personally, I think its sad.

[onesp1ng]

We tend to see what we want, a lot of the time, saying things are caused by greatness that has only been validated through our own empirical eyes, which is most often just the result of our wonderful imaginations. You have read the TORA sight, right?

For example, I talked with a woman yesterday who gave up all her possessions to follow the path that God laid for her. Now, mind you, she is an author of two books, a writer for a newspaper and the mother of two very lovable girls. She can make money easily, needs to, can ask her mother or husband for it, but chose not too, and then wondered what could be done while forgoing meals and simultaneously praying for answers. Upon asking her pastor what the vision of an orange tree might mean, he said, "I think it means that you should also become a pastor." Somehow, she absolutely knew the words he spoke were true, and it was eventually boiled down to the only thing it could, a miracle. Her story was full of whimsical, imaginative rationalities. The result: one woman who is whole-heartedly persuaded in the name of Jesus.

I listened and was reminded of Arhat's remarks of self hypnosis, thinking, it happens under so many various conditions. I felt is was really too bad that such things occur, but later started feeling, on the contrary, that perhaps the loss of self is an important step to self discovery. Don't the "religions" push for it?

Where is the line drawn between true mystical experience and self hypnosis?

(Guess I just find it interesting how my woman friend came to understand by way of her experience...(and lack of food) that things will inevitably be alright regardless of what transpires -- her god will take care of her. Basically she found strength in her experience, but, at the same time, is also prepared to begin writing again.)

g

[arhat]

this monk passed on his life's learning without benefit of a san bao di zi...find it hard to accept.

[Fa Hui]

Your whining about people with HIV is irrelevant, he would not be spreading love etc if he gave a lot of people AIDS which is what he is afraid of (through ignorance or knowledge).

As a Medical/Health-care student, I would like to inform you a little bit about what HIV/AIDS is:

1. You can not give someone AIDS. It's not possible. You can give them HIV, but ONLY through INFECTED bodily fluid, that means that you can hug and even possibly kiss HIV/AIDS patients. It's okay, you can't get it through touching them. You can get, however, through touching a fresh open wound to their fresh open wound. Although it needs to be fast, because the Human Immuno Virus (HIV) dies upon contact with oxygen.

2. If WKK really understood how TCM works then he would know that you probably could not initiate the switch from HIV to AIDS. AIDS stands for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. It is the result of HIV which kills the White blood cells which helps to fight off infection. Therefore, unless Qi kills off white blood cells, then it would probably not be possible for a HIV patient to eventually contract AIDS.

You can take this to Mr. WKK if you like so that he can finally learn a little bit about HIV/AIDS instead of just constantly telling people how ignorant he is of this.

So there,

[Xiaobeeno]

again you are ignoring the main issue, none of you have had any experience of training under or practicing Sifu Wong's techniques.

FYI , I have attended a seminar run by WKK (admittedly only one) before I came across this website and formed my opinions without any preconceptions.

So there!!

[doc]

What is WKK really teaching?

If you read some of his commentary, and put the statements together, you start to wonder exactly what it is that he's teaching. Is it "Shaolin", as in what has been traditionally been taught at the temple, or is it "Shaollin", as in what you find in your local McDojo? Let's look at some of his statements, which are scattered throughout his web site:

Because of its innate characteristics, even a Wing Chun master, using purely Wing Chun techniques, will have difficulty fighting to escape an ambush, whereas Choy-Li-Fatt Kungfu, with its long range techniques and wide-sweeping movements, is well suited for this purpose. We (disciples of Choe Family Wing Chun) are lucky to have the advantage of this Wing Chun-Choy-Li-Fatt combination.


Contrary to what many people believe, Hoong Hei Khoon did not invent Hoong Family Kungfu (or Hung Gar Kungfu) in the way Yim Wing Choon invented Wing Choon Kungfu, or Chen Harng invented Choy-Li-Fatt Kungfu. Hoong Hei Khoon might have modified some of the kungfu he had learnt at the southern Shaolin Monastery, but generally he taught what he had learnt from the Venerable Chee Seen (whose name means "Extreme Kindness").


One of a very few Shaolin monks fought his way out and, with the Qing army trailing him for his life, ran out of China through the whole length of Thailand to the southern border near present day Malaysia. He changed his name to Jiang Nan. After his escape, he had one mission in life, i.e. to pass on the genuine Shaolin arts to a deserving disciple. After about 50 years of searching he finally passed on his life's learning toYang Fa Khun, who was then a young kungfu expert of the Fengyang style. At his old age, Yang Fa Khun passed on the Shaolin arts to Ho Fatt Nam, who was then a professional Siamese Boxing fighter. I know the story intimately because Sifu Ho Fatt Nam is my Shaolin master.


Although Hoong Ka Kungfu is named in honour of Hoong Hei Khoon, most of Hoong Ka exponents today are descended from the lineage of Luk Ah Choy. Please note that Hoong Hei Khoon and Luk Ah Choy did not call their kungfu Hoong Ka, they called it Shaolin. "Hoong Ka" is a modern term; even as recent as Lam Sai Weng's time, which was about 50 years ago, what is now called Hoong Ka by many people was then called Shaolin.



Many American youths have expressed to me their desire to become Shaolin monks. They probably did not know that Shaolin monks, according to genuine Buddhist tradition, have to follow over 400 strict rules. A monk, for example, cannot listen to rock music or sleep on a comfortable bed. Incidentally, if you find Shaolin monks wearing wigs or drinking Coca Cola, you can suspect whetther they are real Shaolin monks.

Put it all together.

[arhat]

again you are ignoring the main issue, none of you have had any experience of training under or practicing Sifu Wong's techniques.

The main issue is that WKK is a quack who makes fraudulent claims. I just told you I tried his chi leg example.

In any case, I can walk over a piece of steaming sh!t in the street and know it would be bad to step in, without the direct experience of having to toothpick sh!t out of the soles of my sneaker.

Your other points may be valid, i am in no possition to comment. All that seems to have been established is that there has been no scientific investigation though Sifu Wong presented it as if there had. Your whining about people with HIV is irrelevant, he would not be spreading love etc if he gave a lot of people AIDS which is what he is afraid of (through ignorance or knowledge).

You should really read the threads, if you care, because there is much much more...

[doc]

again you are ignoring the main issue, none of you have had any experience of training under or practicing Sifu Wong's techniques.


Your other points may be valid, i am in no possition to comment. All that seems to have been established is that there has been no scientific investigation though Sifu Wong presented it as if there had. Your whining about people with HIV is irrelevant, he would not be spreading love etc if he gave a lot of people AIDS which is what he is afraid of (through ignorance or knowledge).

In my opinion, as I've mentioned before, WKK's commentary about AIDS demonstrates an incredible amount of ignorance and hypocrisy.

Now, where's that dictionary so that you fully understand what I'm saying. OH, here we go:

Ignorant: destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics>; resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

His commentary about the transmission and treatment of HIV/ AIDS, is, in my opinion, reeking of ignorance.

Hypocrisy: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

Hypocrisy is from the Greek, hypokrisis an act of playing a part on the stage.

His publication of the Ten Shaolin Rules, which he expects all of his students to abide by, in my opinion, reeks of hypocrisy. "Share the love", but don't share it with people who are unfortunate enough to have AIDS. (Some of the very people who need it the most).

One more definition, a quote actually, from, well, me.

"There is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. Stupid people don't know and are willing to learn, ignorant people don't know and are not."

The question is Eddy, in which direction will you allow life to take you? Blindly? Or, questioning?