Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What's up with the continuous punch???

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What's up with the continuous punch???

    I am still new to Win Chung since I started studying october of last year but I believe that for years of training in other arts there is something I need to give my opinion on.

    Allmost all the time that I see win chung there's people who as training block or deviate one single attack and then rush in with continuous punch to the face.

    I do understand the pros of the idea of using continuous impacts but I also think I understood something about controling the situation by controlling the centerline and sitance, forcing the opponent to do what you expect him to do and also about searching for contact to sense the opponent´s intentions and be able to react or anticipate to keep yourself from being hit, especially if your facing a stronger attacker.
    I understand that using a punch pushing with the forearm/elbow against the attacking arm blocks the attack and can clear the way for your counterattack which could be the same punch that was used as block. I understand that the blocked arm you push against with the foream/elbow is being controlled and you can sense movements of it helping to prevent further attack with this arm and so eliminating your enemies attacking options, which makes it easier for yourself to defend yourself from them.

    So can anyone explain me how rushing forward with continuous punch to the face uses these concepts????????????

    Because I thought the idea of a win chung punch was used to block or deviate an attack, maintain contact and doing so controlling the distance , centerline and the limb that attacked and at the same time to set up for or be a counterattack.

    When rushing forward striking multiple punches, how do you control your opponent's arms and keep from being hit yourself??? What if your enemy throws a punch at you but keeps his guard up, how do you keep him from throwing another punch at you while you are closing in??
    Isn't this nothing more than simple interchange of blows then?? How does this benefit a weaker person who is on the defense against a stronger attacker??? I don't see any control of distance, attacker or yourself, no backup plan if it doesn't work, no .....


    What I wanted to say is that up until now my opinion on this omnipresent Continuous punch is that there is no art in it and that it´s going against the whole theory, which Win Chung is based on and that exactly that´s what gives win Chung a bad reputation. I am not critizing Win Chung as an art, just wanted to vent some ideas on the fact that when you say the name win chung people start making circles with their fists because a lot of people only know and train exactly that as if it were real Win Chung.

    maybe someone can explain me how this wildly punching around while rushing in really works, but in the meanwhile I prefer to focus on other aspects of win Chung.

  • #2
    I can't explain that either. I trained in some wing chun for a hot minute and when I saw that it was kind of silly. But if you have been training iron palm for awhile and you are fast enough those quick punches to the face or jawline will surely do some damage if not knock the oppenent out. You really have to train that though. I wouldn't do it personally but I understand why someone thinks its a good idea because they exploit the opening after blocking or deflecting with one of the pak sau or lop sau or whatever and then BAM! rush in through that open door. Remember though people have two arms and two hands. Just because you blocked one doesn't mean the other isnt there to grab you or punch or tickle you or lather you up for a shampoo.
    "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

    Comment


    • #3
      I've never trained in Wing Chung how come its silly Tetsumaru?

      Comment


      • #4
        First I'd lile to retract my statement about the blocking one arm thing. I remember all the tangling up that they do with the arms. See I don't know anything.

        silly as in it looks silly. Like rock em sock em robots. I'm trying to find a good example of what i mean on Youtube. But there's too much crap to sort through. Anyway even though it looks silly it doesn't mean its not effective. it's the age old argument of speed vs. power. I'm totally talking out of my ass but I think at higher levels of wing chun you have a good balance of speed and power but for the first years! of training wing chun you are building speed and learning to relax while punching. Like I said I don't know anything..seriously...i'm not being sarcastic...what do u think carona?
        "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

        Comment


        • #5
          well i guess ill be defending my style then.. okay so first of all anyone who uses the chain punch or continuous punch to close space inbetween the opponent doesnt know what they are doing, and if thats what youre being taught find a new school.. what the continuous punch is for is when you are already on the inside of your opponent and you have already taken his centerline or youre on his side... what happens in alot of fighting is while some punches are being exchanged there eventually comes a point when one person feels crowded or their anxiety starts to get high, so they will try to step back to regain their composure, what the continuous punch does, is because wingchun is a close fighting art usually when you get close to someone like that you cant see punches and react fast enough , which is why we use our sensitivity.. and at that moment the opponent freezes up or tries to step back to regain their composure, we come forward with the chain punch and never allow them to do so

          i mean its kinda hard to explain with just words, if i can get a camera i will try to get a video up, anymore questions about wingchun let me know

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Wu LongXin, thanks for your excellent reply.

            First of all you don't need to defend win Chung in this thread, because I am not attacking the style. I just felt the need to say what I thought about this rushing in to get into close range.
            Like you yourself replied:

            "...anyone who uses the chain punch or continuous punch to close space inbetween the opponent doesnt know what they are doing..."

            Also i'd like to say you explained quite clearly what the real purpose of continuous punch is. This concept and using it this way I understood already before starting the thread and I agree to its usefulness.

            But I was thinking a lot about win chung techniques lately and, I know it shouldn't but, it irritated me seeing the continuous punch used wrongly by a lot a people. I find it sad that a wrongly used technique has become the trademark of a style, which I value a lot.

            So my " maybe someone can explain me how this wildly punching around while rushing in really works" question was a rethorical one.

            I Started this thread to make other practitioners think about the correct use of this technique and as you put it "...and if thats what youre being taught find a new school.." or at least discuss it with the teacher and other students.

            Also i hoped to get some confirmation on my own idea of this technique like everyone else looks for confirmation.



            Testumaru:

            I think indeed the idea is being fast, but I believe, and Wu Longxin can join in with comments, that when you're still at long or medium range it is important to choose the right moment to enter and prepare your attack well by closing into the close range, where wing chung works, cautiously using speed coming from sensitivity and not off rushing in.


            I don`t know if I'm making myself clear on this, but basically what I want to say is:
            Wrong use of continuous punch does not work advancing from long range, which is not win chung terrain, passing through middle range, where you avoid being hit yourself by controlling centerline and keeping your balance to finally get into close range what win chung is designed for.



            So I'd resume: Silly when it's used to close the distance and definitely not silly if used correctly, as explained by Wu LongXin.


            (b.t.w can someone explain me how to include quotes the right way??)

            Comment


            • #7
              (b.t.w can someone explain me how to include quotes the right way??)
              just read on another thread how to do this......

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wu Longxin
                what the continuous punch does, is because wingchun is a close fighting art usually when you get close to someone like that you cant see punches and react fast enough , which is why we use our sensitivity..
                Didn't know that wing chun practitioners were "sensitive guys"....

                Care to explain that? Not to get off this continuous punch thing,which I have some things to say about.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


                Comment


                • #9
                  well doc ,
                  the whole thing about the close combat is when youre on the outside its easy to see and block punches and kicks, but once you get past a certain range you just cant react fast enough in order to block the punches moving at the same speed. so in proper wingchun training we train to be sensitive enough to be able to be able to sence the opponents intent, so with our turning stance and footwork, etc , we can yeild to energy, move around points, circling the opponent , all the while delivering powerful punches/ kicks from close range.. we learn all of this in our chi sao training, thats were we develope the sensitivity... we learn to stay relaxed because if your shoulders or something get tense and someone gives you a hard lop sao that can really do some damage to someone who doesnt know how to stay soft.. ive actually thrown a muay thai guy on the ground when he punched and i met his arm and lopped him and he tensed up and went straight down.. one of the guys in my school has a video up on youtube ill post the link a little later of him chi saoing..

                  carona,
                  when i said defend i didnt mean it like that , i meant more of like ill be the one to represent..but believe me alot of people out there give wingchun a bad name, when i go on youtube and look at the stuff on there i actually get mad.. and yes rushing in is always bad, which is what i see from alot of other wingchun guys, so they always get taken down and wonder why, but even though i am very fast i can tell you its not as much speed as it is timing.. being able to see when the opponents energy drops, or his balance is off.. pretty much if you use the chain punch and your opponent can step back you were too far away, coz that step back could lead to a take down , and kick or haymaker that youre going to walk right into

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wu Longxin
                    so in proper wingchun training we train to be sensitive enough to be able to be able to sence the opponents intent,
                    that's what I was getting at.

                    Just wondering if you'd clarify that part.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sensing intent, huh? I hope the WC intent training is better than the ninjitsu intent training...LOL

                      The way I've come to understand this "intent" makes it seem vauge. I'd describe it like, a momentum, or a prediction/educated guess on what you're opponent's going to try next. After doing basic chi sau, I've found that it's suprisingly effective.
                      Becoming what I've dreamed about.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        About the sence intent. It's hard to explain because I don't have enough vocabulary to explain what I want to say but anyway here it goes:

                        I wouldn't call it guessing because guessing is a conscious action that comes through observation, processing and evaluation and maybe misinterpreting. This is what you do in the long range. By observing tiny movements of the shoulders you try to predict the incoming attack.

                        Now in the short range there is no time for these different processes, so you need to skip some of them. Just think what would happen if you have to fight with your head down to be able to see your opponent's feet and hands.
                        The whole idea is using subconscious processing, which registrate a lot of things that your conscious mind needs more time for.

                        How to do this is make contact with your opponent to use sensing. But not as in try to feel the intent and then decide how to counter and then do it.

                        First of all if, for example your arm touches another arm your subconscious knows the distance between both and knows the position of your own and the other arm. It also knows in what angle you are positioned and knows if it can proceed downwards, upwards, sideways,... . Or in other words you feel where the ribs, solar plexus, kneecap, throat,..... of yourself an your opponent are and you know if you are at the correct distance to strike any of these points and protect your own without having to actively think about it.

                        My experience is that it's about filling the void. You try to advance and if you feel resistance you change direction looking for less resistance, and if there's a void you just keep advancing. Not thinking in terms of kicking, punches, elbows or whatever. Just searching to feel the void.

                        And when there's a void you fill it with whatever part of your body happens to find this void, could be an elbow, fist, palm strike, knee, kick, ... anything

                        Entering in the void can open up your opponent or he can sense the void and close it, so you just keep searching for a new void. Because this filling the gap is for defense as well as offense.

                        If you succeed filling the gap and hit your oppent, try to hit him again through a new or the same void, and now is where the continuous punch comes in.

                        Doing so you eliminated the whole observing, processing, evaluating, guessing process. sensing intent. But as telepathic distance ninjutsu crap.

                        Hopefully it clears some of this sensitive guys stuff. But we also talk a lot about our feelings and about how horrible it was when bambi was left all alone,.... oh god, I feel tears coming.... I'll have to stop now, can`t take it no more......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          But as telepathic distance ninjutsu crap.
                          Damn, I left out the NOT. NOt as telepathic distance ninjitsu crap that is.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't want to get into the whole Bambi thing. I still get teary eyed when thinking about the time Bambi met Godzilla. Crushed me as a child. Still have nightmares.

                            Back to the continuous punch thing. I'm not exactly sure I follow where you're going with this, but I'll add this.

                            In Kenpo, as in many other martial arts, there are five basic concepts when it comes to striking:

                            A strike is a strike
                            A block is a block
                            A strike can be a block
                            A block can be a strike
                            A strike can be a block and a strike concurrently.

                            The last one, is the "continuous punch"?
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Continuous or Chain punch isn't just one punch. It's several consecutive fast punches directed at the same point.

                              Let's say you got into short range and your opponent has left his center open. Now you could punch him in the solar plexus and then turn back to defense or try to hit him on the chin.
                              Or you could hit him 3, 4, 5,...times in the solar plexus by rapidly making circles in front of your chest (left, right, left, right,....) doing damage to the same part of the body to finish the fight.

                              The second option would be a Continuous Punch or Chain Punch.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X