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  • The "doc hates Yanming's family" email

    Whatever happened to those funny bizarre "I wanna be a monk" emails of yore? Or, even, the hate mail. Instead, I get stuff like this, the new, "doc email of the month":

    btw, i have a question for you if you dont mind. something better to leave to email i guess.

    i recently went to usast for a visit. i helped them move into their new space but didnt train because i'm not really into wushufied xiaohongquan or tongbeiquan or any of their wushu line drills. lol they were all cool but i was a little confused. yanming kind of disappointed me. besides the fact that he was clearly buzzing from the empty bottle of coronas he was sipping on all night while working in the new place. his eyes were shining like glazed donuts. but also, i spoke to richard, hengfa, arhat. he said you were maybe a little put off by sym as of late because you dont approve of his family. since you dont approve of it (if thats an accurate statement) perhaps you can better answer my question.

    i've been told heshang and wuseng take different vows. yet no one has been able to tell me how they differ. i only get vague references and silly things like "no one knows if the vinaya was from buddha or not". but if you dont accept the vinaya was from the buddha and is the basis for your ordination, you should give up the vows to follow him as a monk in his lineage anyway.

    but as far as i've learned in buddhism, no matter the tradition the first rule in the codes of discipline for a monk or nun is to abstain from any sexual act. it is called parajika or defeat for a monk or nun and entails expulsion from the sangha. as soon as they commit the act they are excommunicated from the sangha and must be dis-robed. no meeting of the sangha is needed. they are simply no longer monks.

    yet guys like sym proudly have kids and proudly claim monkhood. but one who does not acknowledge their transgression and confess has committed an even worse transgression. such a person has "known yet broken the vinaya" and are referred to by the buddha as "shameless" and "wicked". further, claiming monkhood by anyone who is not a monk, even if they were before, is a great transgression. but breaking the rule of celibacy is not a rule entailing confession, but automatic expulsion. so all chances are flushed anyway. they are not allowed to re-ordain in this lifetime.

    sym has kids but claims monkhood which is completely unreconcilable and shameless. unless of course wuseng dont take vows abstaining from sexual activity. but then, they can hardly be called bhiksus in any buddhist sense that i am aware of.

    xxxxxxx
    Interesting email. I am "maybe a little put off by sym as of late because (I) dont' approve of his family." Comical.

    Just curious. Did anyone specify which family? The one he has in America, or the one he left behind in China?

    Just to set the matter straight, I really have nothing against the fact that Yanming has two families, nor do I have any hard feelings against either of them, or, for that matter, Yanming. I never met his families, and I really doubt that I ever will. Nor do I care to.

    Utterly bizarre that a comment such as this has crossed my laptop. More bizarre, but kind of expected, that Yanming's minions would derive such a concept.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com



  • #2
    thank you for posting this doc. but you dont have to x out the name. it is obvious who the content was written by. this was a big topic for a while there.

    basically though, no one said you hate his family or even have any feeling about his family personally or individually. it's wrong for you to have assumed that and titled this thread as such.

    what was being asked of you was your stance on the monk/precept situation. secondhand info on what your stance was came in the form of saying you somehow dont approve of yanming having a family- not any feeling toward the members of his family. and this really had little to do with yanming himself, but more entirely on your stand against shaolin monks having a families at all. which is interesting because it is "said" anyway that decheng has a family, and many other monks did as well. suyun's son is a monk in shaolin for example. but for a specific case- yanming. although that stance of yours may have been a misunderstanding. hence the inquiry.

    so basically thats what it was. that was also a long while ago. it seems since then you must have let it run wild in your mind and somehow came up with "doc hates yanming's family" which is ridiculous.

    and lastly, the good news is that the wuseng vs heshang debate has been settled at least a little when the precept levels were discovered. but of course if a heshang were to do the aforementioned acts then that info on expulsion would stand.

    however, it does not apply to the wuseng. which means if you in some way disapprove of yanming's family or any wuseng's family for that matter (or if you ever did) then it may be time to reconsider that given the information on their ordination.

    yanming or any other wuseng is perfectly fine having a family as much as any of us and i dont think anyone's family if it is healthy and stable should be disapproved of. if i do recall, your response to that was that it was a bizarre accusation but the rest of the question to you was answered in itself.

    every layman has their right, and that includes wuseng.

    that also includes drinking. such as the drinking that goes on with yanming. its just that my personal experience with him showed him to be other than what i had seen in his talks before. i was rather disappointed at half my meeting with him. but thats his choice, his life, and his right. i just found him foolish at times. the other half he was super chill and humble. he has two sides apparently. i was just disappointed with one. everyone's experience of him differs though apparently.

    thats all...

    peace!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LFJ
      what was being asked of you was your stance on the monk/precept situation. secondhand info on what your stance was came in the form of saying you somehow dont approve of yanming having a family-
      Never said that either.

      I really could give a shit if Yanming had a family. Or drank, did drugs, or whatever. It really means nothing to me.

      What I know of Yanming will stay with me. Don't misread my comments and create stances for me.

      Peace too. Enjoy Dengfeng. You might see me there.
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

      (more comments in my User Profile)
      russbo.com


      Comment


      • #4
        I've actually spent alot of time with the family he has here in the states. the kids are simply wonderful... I spent many a day getting chased and hit with fake weapons, some really fun times..

        I dont think the issue ever was if the families were nice or not.. Like it would be ok to havea family just as long as they are likeable... if they are jerks then your breaking the vows...

        I always thought the issue was one of a moral one. For someone that claims to be a monk and holds himself to such a high moral standard, is it appropriate to have left a family in china when he came to the US then started a new one with a female student or yours, then proceeded to sleep with various other female students?

        Incidently I've heard through the grape vine that he and his Us based wife have recently split... From what I hear she left him.. Though I cant 100% confirm this yet. Just heard it from a few reliable people..
        The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by doc
          Don't misread my comments and create stances for me.
          i wasnt creating that stance. just asking you about it since it was something i heard. i'm honored to be one of the psychos who gets a spot on the list of emails of the month, regardless.

          Peace too. Enjoy Dengfeng. You might see me there.
          when that dark cloud shaped like a bald head engulfs the training yard? i will know the doc lord has landed.

          (can steve photoshop a picture of that?)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LFJ

            (can steve photoshop a picture of that?)

            Oh no, I'm getting requests. Give me till later today.
            I do not have a psychiatrist and I do not want one, for the simple reason that if he listened to me long enough, he might become disturbed.
            "Life can keep providing the rain and I'll keep providing the parade."
            "I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle."
            "Whatever guy said that money don't buy you pleasure didn't know where to go shopping"

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't recall saying that at all. I doubt I would say that.

              I believe I may have said, conversationally, when asked about Doc, that Doc was going through some real shit because of Xing Wei and what went down, and in my opinion, that is why the forum has taken a negative cast of late, and I may also have said that SYM attracts a lot of criticism because of his family and is always a natural target when it comes time to suck the minus tit and that negativity breeds a thriving forum...or words to that effect.

              I'm really surprised to see this, and to read that I am a "minion?"

              Funny. I'm actually sad I got tired of watching BSG and came back to the forum, and this is the thread I see.

              I am thinking I would like to delete my membership. If I do so, will that mean all my posts dissapear?
              "Arhat, I am your father..."
              -the Dark Lord Cod

              Comment


              • #8
                arhat-

                the thing is, you know doc has been a sucker for controversy. even more so as of late it seems. this is the place to come if you want to read all about it.

                what i remember you saying, and my memory could be wrong, was essentially that because of a number of factors this place has lost its juice. its no longer about promoting shaolin culture and learning together. its about talking controversy. and because of the things doc has experienced as of late it seems he's a little put off by yanming's having a family. which is strange because decheng has one. but he seems to have become rather defensive against most of the shaolin guys these days- perhaps rightfully so. but it seems to have taken over the aim of the site.

                but basically, my questioning doc about this had to do with the topic of monkhood and celibacy and his opinion on it- having also taken refuge in shaolin and for his experience. it had nothing to do directly with your comment or anything specifically yanming related. it was asking his opinion on the running topic.

                and some how that turned into "yanming's minions said doc hates yanming's family".

                you know why doc doesnt get those "i wanna be a monk" emails or even the hate mail anymore? likely because this place is no longer where people come for learning shaolin culture and to seek information like that. its a place where nothing but controversy is brought up and everything makes a great story.

                everyone's always drawing on the negative qi here.

                its unfortunate such a ridiculous thread has been created here, and i can see what you meant by the losing the aim of the site. if such a thread is created to talk about shaolin family and creating controversy between them.

                as you can see i said it was something best left to the email. because i was just asking his opinion and it need not be made into something public and create bad air, as if there were any. it was a light comment.

                but obviously keeping it simple wasnt satisfactory. more controversy had to be made. even between shaolin family on the same side. its ridiculous, if you ask me.

                no one ever made such a comment that was to start this thread. thats all part of the lovely controversy. and it doesnt matter who.

                _/_

                Comment


                • #9
                  Actually arhat I would be curious is you could confirm that yan ming and his gf/ wife or whatever she was did in fact split up?? I've heard this several times and you should know something else seeing as you spend a great deal of time with him...
                  The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well LFJ, you asked for it.
                    The Doc Lord is coming.
                    see pic....
                    Attached Files
                    I do not have a psychiatrist and I do not want one, for the simple reason that if he listened to me long enough, he might become disturbed.
                    "Life can keep providing the rain and I'll keep providing the parade."
                    "I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle."
                    "Whatever guy said that money don't buy you pleasure didn't know where to go shopping"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by arhat
                      I believe I may have said, conversationally, when asked about Doc, that Doc was going through some real shit because of Xing Wei and what went down, and in my opinion, that is why the forum has taken a negative cast of late, and I may also have said that SYM attracts a lot of criticism because of his family and is always a natural target when it comes time to suck the minus tit and that negativity breeds a thriving forum...or words to that effect.
                      Remember, that this website initially became popular with many, including yourself, because of the controversy that it attacked and brought light to. It was never my plan to present the usual "lets all get on our knees and bow to the monk gods" website shit that you find on the internet. I think the fact that this site has remained, and has remained popular, for over ten years, reinforces that. Controversy is something that is not foreign to us on this site. It's not my fault that the individual that you have decided to devote your fealty to, continues to be the subject of controversy, even to this day. Maybe that should tell you something. I do find it entertaining that you continue to find excuses for this man, again, claiming that controversy follows him, now, "because of his family". Comical. Cult like. Sad.

                      I'm not sure you can delete yourself. I can do that, and by doing so, your posts will either be converted to a "Guest" account, or removed in its entirety. As this site continues to be resource for many, I won't alter the structure of the discussion forum. I'm sorry that you no longer want to be a member of the gang. I understand, and I hope that one day, as I've told you in the past, you stand back and really take a good hard look at what you're doing with that individual.

                      Remember something about China. And to some degree its people.

                      Smoke and mirrors. Lies and deceit....

                      You'll figure it out one day.
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have a meeting in a bit with my boss here at the school I'm working at. (in China) He's going to bitch at me about my teaching methods after I was told that I was free to teach however I wanted. I have fallen into disfavor here for the fact that I was using Chinese to explain things in my classes. THings that my students couldn't understand otherwise. I was making some real progress with my method of teaching but my bosses don't seem to care about that. What they care about is when the come to video tape me, for publicity reasons, that all you hear is English and kids laughing and having a good time. They could really give a shit if my kids improve in their ability to speak English or not. It's really sad.

                        So before I fell out of favor my boss had promised me 5500 to 6500 yuan a month. Right now I'm only being pid 4000. It's not that good. So after I fell out of favor the number magically changed to 4500 max. Now, for reasons unknown to me, I don't think I'm going to be permited to teach here next semester. I have changed my methods and everything, but I feel as though I've been labeled "black".

                        On top of that, two other teachers who are working here for a different company were just told by the head masters of our school that if they sign on and become heads of all the foreign teachers next semester they will be paid "much more" than they are currently receiving through the other company. Right now their being paid 85 to 9500. So the school has they money, they just want to abuse their power. What makes it worse is that these two teachers aren't even that great ! But their classes are smiling, laughing, and speaking English. It doesn't matter that they have no clue what the words comming out their mouth actually mean.

                        Smoke and Mirrors is right....
                        It's really pretty sad how F**KED up things are over here. I've never been anywhere else where a baby can shit on the floor of McDonalds, right next to you while you're eating and nobody even flinches. Just as if it never happened. Or where a 12 year old girl drops her droors and takes a piss right at a busy intersection while her mother and brother keep conversing right next to her as if nothing is out of place. And I guess to them it's not. You've got to wonder whats going on in these peoples heads. Do they really view life with absolutely no respect for anything besides their family ?????

                        Some times I wonder why the hell I'm still here.
                        "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One reason why I spend more and more time in Thailand.

                          Far more civilized. Great people overall (with some exceptions...)
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            bai,

                            unfortunately i've been through the same experience, almost word for word, though i was always considered a "good teacher" even with the use of chinese in the classroom, for i learned how to keep up my "appearance" outside of class. in china you are only a machanism for making money --a "smiling face," yes, but, more importantly, a foreign one. you're right, they don't care about the students. it's business, and politics. the school needs your "face" in order to attract parents, their $$$, and their children. if students are unhappy, they tell their parents, and eventually the school is notified that their children will be taken out of school, along with the money that they pay. yet, the school uses any means they can, any excuse, to reduce your salary. thus, your "face" is more important than your teaching, ability, effort, etc. don't exhaust your energy there. don't invest too much spirit. they will suck it out of u.

                            anyhow, they have no right to adjust your monthy salary as they see fit. you did sign a contract, no?

                            i would suggest that you very happily go to them. explain that you feel you that your contract with them has been broken. you came to teach, only have the students best interest at heart, have 付出了很大的代價, and your salary has been reduced, which has not only cost you money, but also a loss of face. additionally, another school has offered you a better wage for less hours. you are considering the job, in, let's say, xiamen...or something. if something isn't done to resolve this issue, you will be forced to leave, but are sorry for the inconvienence that this may cause. do it like it's no big deal, and be patient.
                            ZhongwenMovies.com

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                            • #15
                              btw, they'd also rather bring in someone they can take advantage of next year, by paying less -- someone who has no experience or knowledge of their fraudulence. that way they can avoid paying more if you were to stay, since most contracts go up in wage about 500rmb every year. how many months do u have left? one or two? imagine if they didn't have a teacher for that time. usually they just add additional hours onto the other teachers' schedules, but you can always make known their displeasure if that were to occur. typically i am one to believe that we have the upper hand, because of their need to please and desire to make loot, depending, of course, upon how you finagle the situation. then again, if your contract is almost up...they'll be looking for ways to save money and won't care much regardless of which way you lean..

                              but, never let em see u sweat. such "impulses" are a sheer indication that whatever you are negotiating is important to you. this gives them ample amounts of leverage. on the other hand, if you see an opening, become aware of something that is important to them, exploit it... it may seem disingenuous, a game u don;t want to play, but that is the "dao" of china. and if you are to have a relationship with her, in the long run, you'll need to do as she does... it won't work the other way around.
                              ZhongwenMovies.com

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