Announcement

**Lipster** · 03-05-2003, 04:37 PM

If you click on 'archive' at the top of the screen, that'll take you to the old forum. There was a thread on this school there. Go to 'Shaolin Gong Fu Schools' in the Shaolin section, and the first thread 'Northern China Shaolin Martial Arts Academy' is the one you want.

GL

[Maybe Doc can find the page address]

**doc** · 03-05-2003, 05:08 PM

It's here:
Northern China Shaolin academy

Always remember to search the Archive. That's why we put it there. Tons of information.

And, funny shit too.....

doc

**Elrond** · 05-30-2003, 05:27 AM

Let me prefix my reply by a few coments about myself.

I've studied various martial arts for 10 years or so. At least 5 or 6 seriously. I'm 25 years old. I've traveled extensivly and completely independently (I'm currently living in Moscow for a 6 month period.) I have read all the archived information about schools in Shaolin and outside and have found it largely very helpfull.

I am planning a two month trip to china to study martial arts starting the first week of July. I was planning on the Northern Shao lin martial arts academy. I've heard some good things from people who have been there, and some bad things from others. I am not monetarily commited there so I still could choose an alternate location. The reasons I choose this place is for several reasons
-the environment seems well suited there for training in July and August, (should I decide to stay into the winter, well I just made it through russian winter and didn't think minus 30 degrees C was that bad).
-The instructors there "seem" very qualified to teach Shaolin Gong Fu. Being Shaolin temple trained, as well as the body guard of Mao
-The cost is very reasonable(less than 2 thousand dollars for 2 months)
-Good recommendations of people who have trained there, however not from very advanced martial artists.

Basically the cost of the wushu guan and or the school where your(Doc) master resides seem cost prohibitive at 80 dollars a day. This price seems out of line with what things should cost in China. (that works out to be 4800 dollars for 2 months).

Anyway I suppose I am just asking for advice based on the situation I have given above.

Thanks

(if I do go there I will post here on my experience so there is some solid information about this perticular school which seems to be lacking on the internet)

**Elrond** · 05-30-2003, 06:02 AM

I wouldn't be against the idea of finding my own accomidation if there was a way to arrange training with a good sifu before I embarked on my journey.

I really do want to train hard, and every day, and am very much in favor of traditional Gong Fu over modern WuShu even though I am quite good at the "flying through the air bullshit". I'm not a martial artist for flowerly competitions.

**doc** · 05-30-2003, 01:04 PM

I can arrange costs at my master's school at 25 USD a day, including everything.

The wushu guan no doubt, when it is rebuilt, will be expensive, probably more than 80 USD a day. They're trying to have the only show "in town".

The one you talk about no doubt will be good training. I'm not sure how much traditiional stuff you'll learn, as opposed to modern competitive wushu, which seems to be in vogue at these places. And, you will be FAR from Shaolin. (There's "more qi in Shaolin...")

Whichever you choose, it will be an excellent experience.

**Elrond** · 06-01-2003, 06:31 AM

I thought this might be of some interest to you. It is in response to an email I sent the Northern Shaolin Academy asking about the qualifications of their instructors.

Dear Justin

The masters si fu in academy are De qian si fu close disciples.They reach 7th degree.List of training is on our homepage.De qian si fu no teach.But he wrote four volumes book of Shao lin secret gong fu.This is 95% of shao lin gong fu in past thousands years.That we still keep on trianing as we did.

Best regards

This seems to me to be a very good thing. This makes sense as well considering this is the same area that De Qian spent a large portion of his life in. This information is on their homepage as well.

Oh yah, and when you say "everything" do you mean lodging and food would be included as well for 25 dollars a day?

thanks

**dave l.** · 06-01-2003, 11:16 AM

Li Peng's father , Zhang Jian Shu - doc know's him as well- is still teaching the traditional stuff. If You follow this link : http://www.americaneuropeanshaolin.c...intraining.htm You can find more info. The 450 US$ a month is all inclusive. But remember there are no 'modern facilities' there !! No shower, western toilet, internet,....

**doc** · 06-01-2003, 12:05 PM

The masters si fu in academy are De qian si fu close disciples.They reach 7th degree.List of training is on our homepage.De qian si fu no teach.But he wrote four volumes book of Shao lin secret gong fu.This is 95% of shao lin gong fu in past thousands years.That we still keep on trianing as we did.

Seventh degree what? Let's get something straight here. The whole degree thing in ranks is a Japanese thing, not a Chinese one. To me, that comment just detracts from the "genuineness" of their whole training thing. And DeQian has his own school, in Dengfeng, near Shaolin. Just because they're disciples doesn't mean that your training experience is going to be the same as training with DeQian. These disciples could be twenty year old coaches, who have no monk experience whatsoever. (Hell, to make this point, I'm a disciple....lol) Read through the bullshit man. And, DeQian did not spend a large portion of his life in that area. He traveled a lot, through western China, to escape the horrors of the Cultural Revolution. I've spent a "large" portion of my life in Shaolin (cumulatively, about a year or so), but, in reality, was it really a "large" part of my life? (Experience wise, yes, actual time wise, no). Read through the bullshit.

You would be better off with Li Peng's father. Now that would be an experience. Just don't let him do any of his "Shaolin medicine" on you, lol.

**Elrond** · 06-02-2003, 06:19 AM

The whole reason I'm here is because I am not an expert on the Shaolin stuff. I've studied martial arts for 10 years but no Kung Fu. I figure I've been studying all this other stuff I might as well go to the source. It's a bit difficult to read through the bullshit when every system I've studied under does have degrees

. I'm sending him a reply and asking degrees of what just as you have said. Perhaps he'll have a good explanation.... perhaps not.

As I've said before I'm looking for the absolute best experience I can find. I want to be pushed further than I have been pushed before. I'm going all the way to china, I want to get the best possible experience I can. I have no delusions of monk hood. I'm far too much of an individualist to make that good of a Buddhist anyway.

Part of the reason of considering the Northern Shaolin Academy is its in an area not hit very much by SARS. Henan is a little more based on the information I have here.

Anyway, that's the kind of response I was looking for. Thanks

**doc** · 06-02-2003, 08:41 AM

As I've said before I'm looking for the absolute best experience I can find. I want to be pushed further than I have been pushed before. I'm going all the way to china, I want to get the best possible experience I can.

Then go to the source. Why pick some wushu school way up in northern China, far from everything imaginable, when you can go to Shaolin? Why not pick Beijing University, which has far superior wushu training, and, a very large and very inhabitable city to live in? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of wushu schools in China. You're picking this one because they have a nice web site, in English. If you're going all the way to China, then go to the source. Go to Shaolin.

The SARS stuff is getting better from what my friends tell me. I think that by July or August it might be relatively safe to go there, if it isn't now. There are checkpoints in and out of Beijing; the police are looking for people with fever or cough, so, it's still an issue. But in a few months, it should be ok. As I've said before, this is a highly communicable virus, and as such, will probably burn itself through the population it's going to burn itself through, fairly quickly.

The response to your email regarding what degree they have is going to prove to be nothing more than entertaining.

**Elrond** · 06-02-2003, 03:15 PM

Ok. I'm assuming you of course are a big proponet of your master's school in Shaolin. You say I can go there for 25 dollars a day. Does this mean i will be living in the school and training all day there? In other threads you speak about training up in the mountains. This is seeming like a better and better option. His or another school you recommend would probably be great.

Thanks for wasting so much of your time on me.

**doc** · 06-02-2003, 03:41 PM

You're not wasting my time. I just don't want to see you waste yours.

I'm a big proponent of my master's school because it is a known entity to me; therefore, I can recommend it without worrying that I'm sending you to something bad. The other schools are known to me to a slighter degree, that doesn't mean that they're bad, it just means that I don't know them as well. I do know the wushu guan, having spent quite a bit of time there. I don't know Li peng's father's training, but I do know him, and I do know that he'll teach you some killer traditional stuff. So, I can therefore recommend father Peng and Decheng; at this time, I don't recommend the wushu guan or these far away from Shaolin wushu centers. (Hell, forget way the **** up in northern China and come to Vegas, we'll teach you the same thing, plus you'll have fun in your off training hours, LOL). Get my point? Go to Shaolin. There's nothing like it. And stop believing all the bullshit you see on the internet. And television for that matter, lol.

**pazman** · 06-03-2003, 01:56 AM

on the ranking stuff.....
this has nothing to do with a "rank" per se in given style. rather, it refers to the national wushu examinations that the government has been trying to push, though i dont now exactly how widespread it is to take this supposed examination. basically it was to set up to be a system by which people could be graded and sent to compete against others of comparable experience and skill. but here's the kicker...there's three different types. one is strictly for contemporary wushu and sanshou, entirely for competition. another is for traditional kung fu and is used primarily to show that a teacher knows his stuff and is all accounted for as for creditentials. the last is for scholars who research martial arts....people who practice a lot, might not be the best, but know a lot, can teach well, have done research into things like history, training methodology, etc...sort of like a donn draeger or robert smith, well, okay, those guys were good, but yeah, they were scholars and propigators...or like a yang jwing ming sort of person. but again, i know this was something they were pushing a few years ago but i havent heard anything of it since.

paz

**doc** · 06-03-2003, 02:14 AM

Interesting. But, I never heard of any ranks that consisted of "degrees". The ranking that I've heard of in China, which I've written about somewhere, has to do with levels, but they're not called "degrees" (that's a more Japanese thing in my opinion). They use Chinese terms (obviously) to denote these levels; the top three consisted of some Chinese term meaning "superman" or something like that, the second "gold", the third, lohan. The top level had ten members, the next level had 18 I think and the next level had 46 or so. I can't remember this exactly, but I did write about this a while back, somewhere. Maybe in the Shaolin FAQ section. Shi Xing Hong and Shi Xing Wei were members of the Lohan section; Shi De Qian made it to the top. This was the classic way of ranking people in gong fu; there was no distinction between traditional, contemporary, or teachers.

What Jesse is talking about is intriguing; I've never heard of it. Which, I assure you, does not mean it does not exist. I'm going to have to explore this a little more the next time I go back. It certainly would be a twist if China started using a Japanese convention for an art that the Japanese were influenced by...