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SYX Journal: December 2004

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  • #31
    I remember a while back there was some guy on Shaolinwolf that claimed Yan Ming had snorted cocaine with some members of the Wu Tang Clan. I think thats about the worst one on yan Ming ive come across till this day. The Hengs had fun with that one.

    As far as Yan Ming goes, i frankly dont even care anymore. The guy has gotten so hot controversy-wise thats just pointless to even argue about him anymore. All rumors and opinions set aside, my personal experience with him is that i went to his class once in New York when i had an opportunity to go there, and i had a blast. beyond that, you'd have to be him to know, yet someone else to care probably.

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    • #32
      Either way, I think people don't get the fact that the shape of the "box" that shaolin encompasses is no longer a box.
      practice wu de

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      • #33
        that's awesome. sounds like something from a rock and roll documentary. SYM is gonna be on VH1 in no time...

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        • #34
          Behind the Gung Fu....
          When we return.. was he really a monk....

          lol, oh man.
          practice wu de

          Comment


          • #35
            hello niki who are you. and how did you meet xing du. what did you talk about to him can yoyu tell me. he is a chaet thats all i can say. many people that i have spoken to say the same thing. also you might want to who that xing du has no master anymore so he his nothing.

            Comment


            • #36
              doc, a monk is not someone who lives in a monastery and follows some rules. as a lay buddhist who's been living in a monastery for the last year, i can safely say that i followed the temple rules and my own precepts, but i am not a monk. a monk is someone who has been officially ordained by 10 senior dharma masters including a vinaya master to confer the 250 precepts to the samanera (novice monk). this would include a vegetarian diet in the chinese mahayana tradition (which i have seen several monks at shaolin break), no alcohol or cigarettes (which, again, i have seen violated), no handling money (which is difficult and circumstances may dictate the necessity to break this one, but a monk should certainly not ask for, or expect money, in return for teaching, etc). how many of the monks at shaolin temple follow the central tenets of buddhism? no lying? ha! no harming living beings? kungfu skills designed to kill?hahaha! no sexual misconduct/ celibacy? your having a laugh, mate! i've met christians/ muslims who are better buddhists than these guys! doc, i'm sure your love of kungfu is genuine, and i have no doubt of your sincerity but you guys are KUNGFU disciples, not real BUDDHIST disciples. i am a lay buddhist disciple but i play at kungfu, you guys, on the whole, are kungfu students, who play at being buddhists. do you train your kungfu hard to be better at meditation or do you meditate to be calmer and focussed, i.e. better at kungfu? i stopped visiting this site once i realised what REAL buddhism was, and what REAL buddhist monks were like because your site is quite embarassing to read. i suggest you concentrate on how to kick and punch people and how to smash stones with your fingers or whatever. that way you can really prove to everyone just how REAL your skill is, and how much better you are than wing chun or katate people, etc. it seems that whenever i read contributions from your members, there is a definite air of arrogance dressed up in pseudo-humility. for example, how many times do people write in and say, "respectfully and humbly i would like to ask why the abbot is a miserable sourface? haha, it's cos he's fat and can't do kungfu, haha"? all the time, man, all the time. have you ever considered that he may appear so serious because of the legacy he's inherited? fakes, politics, greed, government control, media attention, kids in usa and uk coming in droves to practice kungfu and ignoring the fact that shaolin is a BUDDHIST MONASTERY?come on. honestly, this site is the kungfu equivalent of 'hello' magazine or the national enquirer. just more gossip and back-biting. if anyone whinges about yong xin fa shi's complaints about kungfu 'monks' they are a million miles off the mark- shaolin is the birthplace of chan buddhism, not kungfu. he's a buddhist monk, not a kungfu teacher, many of whom are using a holy place to line their pockets and are, in the process, contributing to the decline of buddhism and to publicly distorted image of it. so, please urge you members to think before they write, and to consider the karma they will produce by constantly slagging off monks and firther promoting a buddhist monastery as a glorified kungfu school. i don't mean to rant and rave, and i hope that i haven't, but i would just like to point out a few truths, so that you can maybe rectify them and give your site a little more credibility. thanks for taking the time to read this.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by doc
                Technically, a monk is someone who lives in a monastery, and follows the rules of a certain religion or following.

                That, brings you to the definition of a monastery...
                doc, a monk is not someone who lives in a monastery and follows some rules. as a lay buddhist who's been living in a monastery for the last year, i can safely say that i followed the temple rules and my own precepts, but i am not a monk. a monk is someone who has been officially ordained by 10 senior dharma masters including a vinaya master to confer the 250 precepts to the samanera (novice monk). this would include a vegetarian diet in the chinese mahayana tradition (which i have seen several monks at shaolin break), no alcohol or cigarettes (which, again, i have seen violated), no handling money (which is difficult and circumstances may dictate the necessity to break this one, but a monk should certainly not ask for, or expect money, in return for teaching, etc). how many of the monks at shaolin temple follow the central tenets of buddhism? no lying? ha! no harming living beings? kungfu skills designed to kill?hahaha! no sexual misconduct/ celibacy? your having a laugh, mate! i've met christians/ muslims who are better buddhists than these guys! doc, i'm sure your love of kungfu is genuine, and i have no doubt of your sincerity but you guys are KUNGFU disciples, not real BUDDHIST disciples. i am a lay buddhist disciple but i play at kungfu, you guys, on the whole, are kungfu students, who play at being buddhists. do you train your kungfu hard to be better at meditation or do you meditate to be calmer and focussed, i.e. better at kungfu? i stopped visiting this site once i realised what REAL buddhism was, and what REAL buddhist monks were like because your site is quite embarassing to read. i suggest you concentrate on how to kick and punch people and how to smash stones with your fingers or whatever. that way you can really prove to everyone just how REAL your skill is, and how much better you are than wing chun or katate people, etc. it seems that whenever i read contributions from your members, there is a definite air of arrogance dressed up in pseudo-humility. for example, how many times do people write in and say, "respectfully and humbly i would like to ask why the abbot is a miserable sourface? haha, it's cos he's fat and can't do kungfu, haha"? all the time, man, all the time. have you ever considered that he may appear so serious because of the legacy he's inherited? fakes, politics, greed, government control, media attention, kids in usa and uk coming in droves to practice kungfu and ignoring the fact that shaolin is a BUDDHIST MONASTERY?come on. honestly, this site is the kungfu equivalent of 'hello' magazine or the national enquirer. just more gossip and back-biting. if anyone whinges about yong xin fa shi's complaints about kungfu 'monks' they are a million miles off the mark- shaolin is the birthplace of chan buddhism, not kungfu. he's a buddhist monk, not a kungfu teacher, many of whom are using a holy place to line their pockets and are, in the process, contributing to the decline of buddhism and to publicly distorted image of it. so, please urge you members to think before they write, and to consider the karma they will produce by constantly slagging off monks and firther promoting a buddhist monastery as a glorified kungfu school. i don't mean to rant and rave, and i hope that i haven't, but i would just like to point out a few truths, so that you can maybe rectify them and give your site a little more credibility. thanks for taking the time to read this.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I think you embarass yourself, hui ke...tell me...can you name Damo's disciples, and if you can, can you tell me how a buddhist monk taught a woman, and even considered her to be his dharma heir.

                  second thought, nevermind, don't bother.

                  good luck with your "buddhism." hopefully you will get some marrow soon.
                  "Arhat, I am your father..."
                  -the Dark Lord Cod

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Wow, that is some ownage, Arhat. But then again, I don't know what Hui Ke said. Poor punctuation and capitalization, I am afraid. Oh well, forgive the intrusion, lol.
                    Becoming what I've dreamed about.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      From Merrian Webster's dictionary. Far more of a respected reference than the rest of us:

                      Monk: Etymology: Middle English, from Old English munuc, from Late Latin monachus, from Late Greek monachos, from Greek, adjective, single, from monos single, alone
                      : a man who is a member of a religious order and lives in a monastery.
                      So much for that.

                      and to consider the karma they will produce by constantly slagging off monks and firther promoting a buddhist monastery as a glorified kungfu school.
                      Maybe you had better talk to Yongxin about that. He is heavily involved with, and associated with at least three gong fu schools in nearby Dengfeng, from which he draws his "monks" from. You know, the ones that go around the world doing those very un-Buddhist gong fu performance activities. But, then again, he's not only the abbot, he's a graduate of Beijing's Buddhist college, and a relatively high ranking member of local Chinese government. Guess it's time you spoke with him about your observations of his temple.

                      come on. honestly, this site is the kungfu equivalent of 'hello' magazine or the national enquirer.
                      Hello magazine? Did I miss that one? And I LIKE the National Enquirer...
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hello Magazine???

                        Originally posted by doc
                        Hello magazine? Did I miss that one? And I LIKE the National Enquirer...
                        Hmmm..... sounds like a new photoshop project is coming up?
                        I do not have a psychiatrist and I do not want one, for the simple reason that if he listened to me long enough, he might become disturbed.
                        "Life can keep providing the rain and I'll keep providing the parade."
                        "I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle."
                        "Whatever guy said that money don't buy you pleasure didn't know where to go shopping"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          why "buddhism", in quotation marks? why do you question if that which i study is real buddhism? i'm not playing at it , i am a serious practitioner. do you know how much the international sangha laugh at shaolin? whenevr i say i went to shaolin they laugh and tell me to visit some real buddhist temples like jiu hua shan or wu tai shan where there are serious cultivators. i'm not slating shaolin for nothing, i'm merely commenting on the way people in this site talk with cod-authority about things they appear not to understand, at least superficially anyway. i don't know, maybe you know a lot, maybe you have cultivated for years and have accrued untold merits and you could be the next buddha. i don't know. my post wasn't about YOU so there's no need to take it as a personal attack, it was a general observation it's not a competition to see who knows the most about buddhism, that misses the point completely. as for naming the chan patriarchs- i think that's a little pointless. how do you know which sect of buddhism i follow? i could be a theravada buddhist and study nothing of eastern buddhism, be it chan, pure land, nichiren or whatever. collected facts and figures don't really mean anything, it's how you conduct your thoughts, speech and actions. if you took what i said to be a personal affront to yourself, i am sorry about that. good luck with your cultivation and your gongfu.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by huike
                            doc, a monk is not someone who lives in a monastery and follows some rules. as a lay buddhist who's been living in a monastery for the last year, i can safely say that i followed the temple rules and my own precepts, but i am not a monk. a monk is someone who has been officially ordained by 10 senior dharma masters including a vinaya master to confer the 250 precepts to the samanera (novice monk). this would include a vegetarian diet in the chinese mahayana tradition (which i have seen several monks at shaolin break), no alcohol or cigarettes (which, again, i have seen violated), no handling money (which is difficult and circumstances may dictate the necessity to break this one, but a monk should certainly not ask for, or expect money, in return for teaching, etc). how many of the monks at shaolin temple follow the central tenets of buddhism? no lying? ha! no harming living beings? kungfu skills designed to kill?hahaha! no sexual misconduct/ celibacy? your having a laugh, mate! i've met christians/ muslims who are better buddhists than these guys!
                            Just FYI- Shaolin monks are allowed meat and alcohol (although from what i've seen most of them still refrain from alcohol). Still, i guess this is as good a place as ever to start sorting out my long-awaited "what is a monk" venture, seeing as to how i do actually have problem seeing most these guys as monks. By the way, what is a "better Buddhist"?

                            Originally posted by huike
                            doc, i'm sure your love of kungfu is genuine, and i have no doubt of your sincerity but you guys are KUNGFU disciples, not real BUDDHIST disciples. i am a lay buddhist disciple but i play at kungfu, you guys, on the whole, are kungfu students, who play at being buddhists. do you train your kungfu hard to be better at meditation or do you meditate to be calmer and focussed, i.e. better at kungfu? i stopped visiting this site once i realised what REAL buddhism was, and what REAL buddhist monks were like because your site is quite embarassing to read.
                            Where has doc, or for that matter much of these guys, claimed to be a buddhist disciple? I know I sure as hell havent, or for that metter tried to talk like i am an authority on buddhism. You might want to check Shaolinwolf.com for that one (the whole "i am a buddhist disciple/wannabe thing is much thicker there). I like, though, the repeated references to "real" things. I've always understood that in buddhism, nothing is real. Not only that, but attatchment to these non-real things is kind of sort of not 8-fold path-ish. Ah, anyway just my slanted opinion (no pun intended).

                            by the way, some of the stuff above may have been where he took it as a personal attack.

                            Originally posted by huike
                            i suggest you concentrate on how to kick and punch people and how to smash stones with your fingers or whatever. that way you can really prove to everyone just how REAL your skill is, and how much better you are than wing chun or katate people, etc.
                            ok, maybe that too

                            Originally posted by huike
                            it seems that whenever i read contributions from your members, there is a definite air of arrogance dressed up in pseudo-humility. for example, how many times do people write in and say, "respectfully and humbly i would like to ask why the abbot is a miserable sourface? haha, it's cos he's fat and can't do kungfu, haha"? all the time, man, all the time.
                            eh...and kind of this too, except that was an ad-hominem generalization about all of us. and in a way, yourself.

                            Originally posted by huike
                            have you ever considered that he may appear so serious because of the legacy he's inherited? fakes, politics, greed, government control, media attention, kids in usa and uk coming in droves to practice kungfu and ignoring the fact that shaolin is a BUDDHIST MONASTERY?
                            I'm actually pretty sure its because he's fat..or, has to do with it. ah, nevermind...

                            Originally posted by huike
                            come on. honestly, this site is the kungfu equivalent of 'hello' magazine or the national enquirer
                            nice...

                            Originally posted by huike
                            just more gossip and back-biting. if anyone whinges about yong xin fa shi's complaints about kungfu 'monks' they are a million miles off the mark- shaolin is the birthplace of chan buddhism, not kungfu.
                            I'm pretty sure that without its martial heritage, Shaolin would be nothing. But i'm sure you know better because you are a real buddhist and I am an arrogant Apartheid Israeli Jew.

                            Originally posted by huike
                            he's a buddhist monk, not a kungfu teacher, many of whom are using a holy place to line their pockets and are, in the process, contributing to the decline of buddhism and to publicly distorted image of it. so, please urge you members to think before they write, and to consider the karma they will produce by constantly slagging off monks and firther promoting a buddhist monastery as a glorified kungfu school.
                            You know, the original "real" buddhists of Shaolin are as guilty of this as are the modern ones. like for example rescuing the offspring of an Emperor- with their evil, corrupting, nothing-to-do-with-buddhism kung-fu- and recieving land, money and privileges in return.

                            Originally posted by huike
                            i don't mean to rant and rave, and i hope that i haven't,
                            You have...

                            Originally posted by huike
                            but i would just like to point out a few truths, so that you can maybe rectify them and give your site a little more credibility. thanks for taking the time to read this.
                            I believe that the burden of rectifying one's self falls not only upon some of us, but upon you as well. You don't know us. And it looks to me that you have completely missed the beauty in this site. Not to mention that you dont know, really, a god-damn thing about what Doc has gone and been through to do his part to promote Shaolin and provide information about his heritage kung-fu and otherwise. It may surprise you even more to know how much he has actually gotten out of it. Yet, despite your less-than-little knowlege, you ride in here on your high-horse, with "real" buddhism this and non-tenant-folling that. Seriously, i may ahve been too subtle but i believe you might understand where i'm coming from.

                            Either way, i envy you that you have found what is real in life. I have for a long time lost belief in the ability to find such a thing but what the hell, maybe next circle. Beyond that, i will be waiting for your response, which no doubt will be saturated with wisdom and objective, un-biased and peculiarly contradicting points about things you dont seem to really understand.





                            Steve- I can't wait.
                            Last edited by dogchow108; 01-09-2005, 06:47 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              looks like you brought a knife to a gun fight, Hui ke.

                              Go easy on him Dogchow...he's only got one arm.

                              Nice to hear other buddhist monastics laugh at other monastics. Sounds authoritative. Don't listen to those buddhists, we got the real shiznit right here...who's the Champion of the Chanting League these days...

                              Hui Ke, I don't think you would have liked Damo very much! That precept breakin muthaƒuçker!! All the other Buddhists laughed at him, even when he played their reindeer games.

                              Funny too- we went all over China and everywhere we visited different temples, nobody laughed at us, and we even experienced some rather special moments, such as a rare private viewing of this painting. See attached.

                              Anyway, to answer your questions, I put Buddhism in quotes because it is a persoanl journey for each practitioner and by it's very nature should resist institutionalization, eventually anyone following the precepts should realize that. It would seem that for you, you require a Buddhist static to be comfortable. So your version strikes me as a little under developed, but boy can you wing some sh!t our way.

                              And if you are Shaolin, then it would seem you are woefully ignorant of your history, which would basically shelve a lot of your rant to the @ssbin of @ss history of the @ss knowledge you think you have in order to make those @ss posts. Which also wouldn't shock me, as a lot of the 'monks' being churned out by Shaolin don't know much about Shaolin.

                              Damo was a fully ordained Buddhist monk. He taught, and even considered a woman, her name was Ming, as a dharma heir- a MAJOR no-no according to the vinaya. And he didn't give a Æ’uck about what other established Buddhists thought about him or his way, did he now. If you knew about the struggles of many of the patriarchs, you'd probably see your serious practice in a much better light. So don't be so surprised that monks in the birthplace of his tradition shed precepts, they started off their whole she-bang with a rebel. Nowadays, SYX is taking a lot of steps to superficially knock Shaolin back to Chinese Buddhist Hegemony.

                              Shaolin monks are hardly in a vacuum as far as precept shedding goes- basically any engaged Buddhist monastic, and it's not like Yong Xin follows them all, to the Dalai Lama, to Thich Naht Han, all trade precepts in and out of what they follow, to certain degrees. Where you get into trouble is when you start dealing out judgements and using precepts as your qualifier.
                              "Arhat, I am your father..."
                              -the Dark Lord Cod

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                whoops, forgot the painting...

                                just a detail...
                                Attached Files
                                "Arhat, I am your father..."
                                -the Dark Lord Cod

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