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Topic Twelve: The trademark of the Shaolin name

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  • #76
    Wilfried wrote to me with some more information.

    Hi Doc,

    I want to tell you the next episode of the "trademark story" going on here in Germany. But first let me apologize for answering that late. Although I'm in a fight here, I have to spend some time working on my job as a business consultant. To learn more, just have a look at my site www.wilfriedscholz.de, where you'll find some pages in english, too.

    My opponents have changed their tactics and handed over the "shaolin"
    trademark, which was by fault registered by a spanish EU staff member, to Shi Yong Xin and the Songshan Temple. Still they are fighting me, but now in the name of Songshan Shaolin, which causes me some emotional problems. I don't want to fight against the friends in China, but I have to be aware of who is the driving power in the dark - some really suspicious German business men. So I'll go on defending me and my url www.shaolin-tempel.de (and I will add some english pages soon!!).

    The story can now be told in short: At the beginning of the year 2000 I asked the German patent's office, wether shaolin can become a trademark in Germany. I received an official document that it could not, as it is undiscriminous. This is what all of us say and so I was content, saw no problems to name my website and started. In November 2000 the named German business men registered "Shaolin" in Alicante, Spain, where the patent's office for the European Union is located and - what a miracle - they did.
    This decision would criminalize thousands of schools all 'round Europe that wear Shaolin (Shaolim, Shorinji...) in their name. So what I will have to prove in the judical hearing is, that my homepage url had spreaded and was acknowledged in the martial arts world from March 2000 until November 2000.
    If I can show evidence for this, my url is a trademark itself and I can go to Alicante and eliminate the Shaolin trademark - it would then violate my rights; so following this way, the trademark Shaolin (Shaolim, Shorinji....and related) could become free again in Europe.

    I now want to ask you (and I hope Uwe Schwenk from Chicago will support my
    wish) to let the big Amercian Shaolin community know, that I need some support in my struggle. I have set up a form both in German and English (see attachment)in a ms-word format and ask the friends, that have known and visited my homepage between March and November 2000 to sign it and send it by mail or better via fax until august, 24th to me to help me and the European schools to win the fight. I already have lots of confirmations from German schools and some coming from France, England, Poland, Hungary and some more European Countries. But I'm quite sure that I had advertised my url on russbo.com in some way in that time and hope that my Amercian friends want to stand by my side.

    O.K., maybe this wasn't that short. But I hope, things have become more clearly now. I was a little bit anxious to take the hand you had reached me when my first law suit agains Rainer Deyhle began in February; this one ended with a court decision I had won, but now I see no other chance than to go public and I really would appreciate your support.

    Thank you,

    Wilfried
    Attached Files
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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    • #77
      Hey all,

      All I can say is that I strongly disagree with the trademarking of Shaolin. Its good to know im not the only one. Anyways, I don't have any political contacts and i am not paricularly powerful in this world (yet), but if I can help in some way by lending a voice, I will. No doubt. Shaolin for everybody.

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      • #78
        you sound like a villain on star trek that came from another dimension to take over our own.
        Originally posted by PB longfist
        i am not paricularly powerful in this world (yet)
        haha, sorry...

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        • #79
          I guess I can understand why he would want it trademarked but I mean on a bar of soap or how about a pair of sneakers? But on a martial arts school is a different matter.
          "If you want pure self-defense buy a can of mace." Grandmaster Villari (I think that is it).

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          • #80
            Uwe sent me an interesting observation about all of this. I can't imagine this being an oversight on the abbot's legal team's part.
            The fact is, the PRC, Shaolin Temple, nor does Abbot Shi Yongxin, have any legal claim to exclusive use of"
            Shaolin", or even "Shaolin Temple" for martial arts training, martial arts exhibitions or martial arts performances in the USA. Their USA trademarks #2882759, # 2882776 and their pending marks #76168740,
            #76171758 do not include martial arts training, martial arts exhibitions or martial arts performances.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #81
              Reliable rumor from various people informs me that the people in Austria who run the shaolinwolf site, devotees of Yanming, are in the process of being sued by Yongxin and the Shaolin Temple, for supposed trademark infringement.

              Actually, I'm not surprised. They publicly refer to their school as "Shaolin Temple Austria", which, considering what is obviously going on with respect to this trademark issue, is almost as ignorant as playing golf on US Interstate I 5. Their "lineage" is no doubt not the best in the abbot's eyes....

              However, we wish them well in their endeavor. It will be interesting to see how the Austrian courts handle this issue.

              Personally, my bets would not be with wolf on this one.
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

              (more comments in my User Profile)
              russbo.com


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              • #82
                In all the situations that are similar to this one, I would bet on Yongxin. I might not even fight it, depending on the circumstances.
                Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                • #83
                  Well, is this the first international suite? If it is, it could send an interesting president.
                  practice wu de

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                  • #84
                    Stylee, your post count is 1337!

                    l337, stylee is teh pwnzor.
                    Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                    • #85
                      It's not the first international suit. It's in the site, somewhere, probably in this thread, and also in the russbo.com CNI on the first page of the site. Yongxin had "representatives" in Germany sue the guy that runs shaolintempel.de, or something like that. The first suit failed, but Yongxin then proceded to create more reliable local "institutions", with which he could more adequately file suit in the future. The move to internationally trademark the "shaolin" name, which I'm quite surprised he got (though I'm not surprised he got the "Shaolin Temple" trademark, a completely different thing as I see it), was the next step, and a prepatory one for his taking over the Shaolin name worldwide.

                      I've mentioned this in the past, long before this all became "obvious". The plans years ago, when destructing the village and getting rid of the local schools, had made it clear to me that the future move was to capitalize on the Shaolin name directly. Well, it's happening. The temple is preparing its little disneyland over there, with plans to offer training for foreigners. Getting rid of any sort of international competition would be the logical next step.

                      Wolf's big mistake, in my opinion, is that he hasn't been reading this thread, lol. It's perfectly obvious that the whole Shaolin issue is a sensitive one for Yongxin, one which he has spent a lot of resources pursuing. And, with the current financial situation that he's created in Shaolin, he has the resources to do this. Of course, anyone referring to their school or whatever they have, as a "shaolin temple", is really asking for trouble. Especially when that school adores and glorifies an individual with a well known historically debatable shaolin history (as per the multitude of forum posts on various Shaolin related sites), and an unquestionably poor relationship with Yongxin (as evidenced by Yongxin's behavior towards him during one of his trips to Shaolin).

                      Bad move. Yongxin has prepared his pawns well this time, having learned from the failure of the German lawsuit (which is currently again in process as I've last heard). He's got all his pieces lined up, and he's ready this time.
                      Attached Files
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


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                      • #86
                        Right, thanks, I forgot about that German thing. I wonder if he'll go after Shaolin Brand here in the US, of if it'll be safe because it doesn't have the temple tag....
                        practice wu de

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                        • #87
                          Well, the temple tag is the interesting kicker, in my opinion. I can definitely see how Yongxin can trademark the "Shaolin temple" concept, as, it is one place, in one part of the world, and he has it. And, ignorantly, many people in the US use that tag, as if they were a "shaolin temple". I think those people are really asking for it.

                          But the word "shaolin", in my opinion, is a more "common" word, one which I'm really surprised that he got the trademark for. In a legal case, I would really wonder how that would turn out. One can never predict what would happen in a US courtroom. I think Yongxin would have a tougher time with that one.
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


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                          • #88
                            Yongxin would sue McDonalds for making all the American monks fat.

                            Shaolin has to keep an image, you know.
                            Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                            • #89
                              As always, a really interesting topic. What's even more interesting is the way it's being presented and what will be more interesting again is how ShiYongXin plans to market his bid. I think I have a fair understanding of where he's comming from but I think we all think the same of our own interperatations.
                              I really think it's going to come down a case of seperate and define ( which explains alot of his actions and this sherrif label he's seemed to have picked up), and baby and bath water ( particularly with regard to the schools and dojos selling the last remnans of this or that ) comes to mind somewhere in the equation aswell. Bearing in mind that preserving shaolin's gongfu as part of shaolin buddhism is a deep seated goal of his own, ShiYongXin would have to have done a huge amount of homework to market it effectively and have the revival and apparent flourish the man is obviously looking for . It's been a long road back since the great revoloution and possibily even earlier. I'm sure he has a plan he trusts will work and being his commitment, I just wish him and shaolin sincere luck and generous swing of the pendulum.
                              Speaking of US supreme court case precedents though, I can see a few loop holes to exploit myself so it'll be interesting to see who finds what .
                              I don't disaggree with the "temple " tack to the application and obviously that would have more merit . He definately has his work cut out for him though and knowing there's only so much of the neccessary explaination of the differences in the products and how sharing the moniker comprimises the market of that product he's trying to define ( if first in first served is adhere to as in the precedent ) a court is going to buy and dual meaninged words and terms ( either literally or implicatively ) and plaintiff : defendant association is a nice spin to consider aswell. Then Imo it comes back to defining what is deemed traditional and those neccessary prc guanxi modifications the temple has seen and why ShiYongXin is playing with the syllabus there and why there's so much good ( however sporadic) traditional teaching in the US . Imo, it's fairly obvious in gong fus perpetuation that these traditional form and skill holders have the same objective but are committed to different marketing methods for whatever host of reason you choose ( lack of faith in each other's a humourous overture) .
                              For the future though, a seperate wushu/shaolin curriculum may be the most viable option for a time and no doubt the gongfu comming out of temple , given the traditional reintroduction phasing in at the moment, is on the change card aswell.
                              How ever it does turn out though , like everyone else I'll be holding my breath for the outcome aswell. Nice can of worms you have there Doc and thx for the thread.

                              Blooming Tianshi Lotus

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                              • #90
                                Another thing that would be interesting... would be to call something in an English speaking country the small forest temple, or young forest temple....


                                what the hell did you just say?

                                What Supreme Court case?

                                What does meaninged mean?


                                Then Imo it comes back to defining what is deemed traditional
                                What does traditional as opposed to contemporary have to do with this?

                                a seperate wushu/shaolin curriculum may be the most viable option for a time and no doubt the gongfu comming out of temple
                                What does this have to do with possible proceedings on someone calling themselves the shaolin temple... very little will be placed on what they teach I think..... especially when there is so many itterations of Shaolin gong fu...


                                I don't even know if I pulled that apart right.
                                practice wu de

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