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  • #16
    i have a similar diet of eating a lot of meat and drinking often, but my goals are a bit different, namely, to fill myself with meat and get drunk. i also drink a lot of caffeine. i probably won't make it to 30, but i hope to maintain my boyish figure and die a premature and glamorous death.

    what's a naturopath? and why would you ask a pharmicist for nutritional advice?

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    • #17
      So, to answer the questions I remembered after reading through this........

      Eh, I can't find the quote but someone said something tentatively and with a question mark about the relation between qi and blood. This is how I was taught it.

      Qi is the commander of blood. Blood is the mother of qi.

      This means that qi provides the motive force to circulate and direct blood flow, while blood provides the nutritive force to feed the qi.

      As for alcohol, in chinese medicine they say wine increases qi and blood circulation, and can help deal with pathogenic cold. However, alcohol consumption (especially in excess) raises and scatters the qi, and leads to an accumulation of damp heat in the body.

      Most topically applied hebal remedies are in the form of herbal plasters or medicinal wines. Doc has already gone over the biomedical reasons for topical application of alcohol extracts. The chinese medical reasons are about the same. It's good for blood and qi circulation (namely blood, but you can't be good for blood circulation without also promoting qi movement, see above) and because it's topically applied in a fairly small dose compared to the average oral dose of alcohol, it doesn't lead to damp heat accumulation.

      Someone also asked about a tincture with a few z's in its name for bruising. I usually use dit da jow for that. If there's a strain with no bruising I'll go with po sum an, or white flower oil.

      Hope that helps.
      Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by doc
        Lot's to talk about, and I'm going to need some time to put it all together. (Shi De Cheng arrives in a few hours....)

        I'll get to it.
        cheers Rich and btw : have an awesome seminar, wich I could make it...... look forward to reports on all acounts anyway.

        Daodejing: Extremely cool of you to post what you did. Some really good info there and it's not often I get that good of quality response or new info so cheers to you, and if I could add to your rep on it I would................. Makes the rest worth it ha

        cheers again boys and look forward to part 2 when it happens.

        BTW: if It's not before christamas , have a good one and see you all after the break .


        Zachsan : asked the pharmicist because in the end all it comes down to is bio-chem..and that's his field............ don't worry though, we all get a dooey moment allowance ........... well I'll give you one anyway :P


        Booming Lotus
        "honestly girls dont seem to want anything other then whatever they want "atm" then that can always change:"
        maestro's love genius.

        first we work to live, then we live to work, ..& then when someone else can do it good enough without us - we can all run off and die.
        Blooming tianshi lotus

        "find something & thatd turn me on.." drahillionaire, warren buffet.

        'if you keep going, eventually you get there' chuck norris

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        • #19
          Originally posted by zachsan
          DDJ, what are the expected negative effects in TCM of eating lots of steak and drinking a lot of alcohol and caffeine? i'm curious.

          doc, will i make it to 30?
          Potential for: Liver Fire, Qi stagnation, and a nasty case of the Irish Brogue!
          Mike Evans
          Medford, NY

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          • #20
            Originally Posted by zachsan
            DDJ, what are the expected negative effects in TCM of eating lots of steak and drinking a lot of alcohol and caffeine? i'm curious.

            doc, will i make it to 30?
            Not if you keep stealing docdollars from me.

            (I know it's you....
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #21
              I'm going to have to send out the croanies...

              DDJ...

              Can you possibly make a short list of common TCM remedies for bruises, strains, etc... training related stuff.
              practice wu de

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              • #22
                dear god, that'd take a while. Maybe if I bring my herb textbooks home for christmas.

                Suffice it to say, dit da jow can be used one any external injury with bruising. If you're just looking for pain releif and theres no bruising, go with a menthol based oil or rub like white flower or tiger balm.

                Zach, as for your question about steak, coffee, and whiskey. They make an interesting combo.

                There's a saying attributed to confucius (probably just to give it more weight, he may have never said anything about this) that's kind of dietary common sense. NEVER eat more meat than rice in a meal.

                This means eat an equal or larger serving of carbs/grains as your serving of meat. As a general rule, your digestion of red meat especially will be much better this way. So if you eat a 16oz steak for dinner, you need to eat at least a pound of potatoes.

                The whiskey willl lead to damp heat, and the meat without fiber and vegetables will cause digestive and liver problems. The coffee will help your bowel movements go in the absence of fiber.

                In general, remember this rule. HUMAN BEINGS ARE OMNIVORES. eating an all steak diet is just as stupid and unhealthy as being a vegan.
                Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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                • #23
                  OK, I'll see what I'm looking at then. I just got a catalog for some herbs and whatnot.. I'll ask more specific questions. I was planning on getting a few different things, like one for bruises, one for sprains, etc. I'll bring the catalog in to work with me sometime in the next week or so.

                  thanks
                  practice wu de

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                  • #24
                    No offense to any vegetarians/vegans out there (see above post where I acuse veganism of being stupid and detrimental to the body), but I've never met a healthy vegan. I know a woman (who currently is eating meat again) who claims she was healthy while eating vegan for several years, but she also grew all of her vegatables and herbs on the land adjacent to her house and spent the rest of her time not dedicated to horticulture teaching yoga classes.

                    I can't even validate this as more than hearsay, and it's still the only time I've ever heard of a healthy vegan.
                    Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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                    • #25
                      oh no don't get me wrong, i eat at least equal carbs to meat. i never have my steak without my potatoes. well, almost never. and before dinner, i eat bagels and hoagies and all manner of carb-rich stuff. it's just that when it comes to dinner, i am eating red meat as my main course maybe 4 out of 7 nights a week. i don't really mix a lot of chicken and such in there.

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                      • #26
                        I don't eat red meat any more, cut it out of my diet about 4 years ago. I can't really digest it too well any more it seems. I also cut pork out, but I am back eating that once in a while (about once a month). At first it was a challenge to give up meat for a month, for gung fu class, almost as a joke. Then I did it for dietary reasons, I was a big dude, needed to cut some weight, looked at my diet and saw the only pork I was eating was sausage or bacon on a breakfast sandwich, and like ~90% of the red meat was in the form of a burger. I never, and will never cut fish and poultry out though (man I love my fish).
                        practice wu de

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                        • #27
                          as an addendum to my previous post, i think it's worth mentioning that the 3 out of 7 nights when i don't eat meat as my main course at dinner, it's because i'm not having any real dinner to speak of.

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                          • #28
                            Hey, someone said something about zheng gu shui, and I said something about po sum an.

                            Here's the difference.

                            Zheng gu shui is for releif of pain in deep muscle layers, as well as sprains.

                            Po sum an is for releif of pain in superficial muscle layers, and also for wind cold. Especially for superficial muscle pain brought on by wind cold, such as stiff neck and headache due to exposure.
                            Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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                            • #29
                              I use Po Sum An in my massage practice quite often. Great results, plus it makes the room smell like cnady canes!
                              Mike Evans
                              Medford, NY

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                For reasons of vegetarianism and "health" largely being buddhist and making a personal pledge to take care of my health for whatever that involves, I haven't really eaten red meat for a long time myself. In further studies on other food-as-medicine studies on totally unrealting tangents, and in accordance with both western and eastern practices, I found that unless you get certain types of proteins or rather proteinic enzymes ( that come from both aminal fibred products and plant matter) , and iron aside here, less of the protein you consume will be actually be absorbed and witrhout the neccessary combo of the 2, alot of your unbonded proteins will remain stagnant in your digestive systems causing a range of symptoms from bloating to lethargy and degeneration of a multitude of different internal systems and organs . I still don't like trying to digest beef, but I find pork ( and respective products) occassionally is a good health choice and a really seldom a piece of lamb seems to make a difference aswell. Tcm pricipals also site various meats and complimentary fluid intake as providing benifits again..........like the pork / red wine combo to aid aggression and liver qi health for example, or lemon juice and red dates of an early morning for spleen qi promotion and restoration . As far as training goes, I'm sure we've all heard how how Jet Lis instructor "made" him eat meat, but I personally think , if you're going to take your training seriously, your nutrition must be a part of that equation. You can't grow and repair muscles and their fibres if you're snot upplying them with material to rebuild and grow.

                                Look forward to Docs input if there's much left we can't address amongst ourselves.

                                cheers folks and have a healthy , active and productive season.

                                Blooming Lotus
                                "honestly girls dont seem to want anything other then whatever they want "atm" then that can always change:"
                                maestro's love genius.

                                first we work to live, then we live to work, ..& then when someone else can do it good enough without us - we can all run off and die.
                                Blooming tianshi lotus

                                "find something & thatd turn me on.." drahillionaire, warren buffet.

                                'if you keep going, eventually you get there' chuck norris

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