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  • chinese sword etiquette?

    Does sword etiquette exist in chinese culture, like it does in japanese martial culture? For example, if you were sitting across from someone and you have your sword laying next to you on your right side it would mean that you trusted whoever was across from you, where as if you had it on your left side it shows that you don't trust the person. Is there anything like this in chinese culture?

    kunoichi

  • #2
    I've trained in Chinese sword forms, and I've never come across any sort of this so called sword etiquette in Shaolin. Which does not mean that it does not exist. Decheng focused more on technique and how to use it to kill people than anything else.

    Uwe would be the one to answer this in a more formidable fashion.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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    • #3
      Let me dig in my library. You will get an answer soon.



      Uwe

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      • #4
        I cant disappoint the great bald one now can I?


        In regards to Chinese sword etiquette, there is not too much written down, such as is the case with Japanese, Korean, European and other swords. However, one thing can be said that a number of the Japanese customs are also often applied to Chinese swords, sometimes with small variations.

        The following is an excerpt from one of my seminars way back when….

        I am listing here the same points I had listed then, because it was used to start a discussion around all these individual points, and I think it would be fun to do this over here as well not too mention to see where we are getting with this time around versus 10 years ago.

        Never place a sword on the ground. Never draw a sword partway. It is bad luck to practice with a sword made for an altar (the so-called "temple swords"), but it is absolutely permissible to place the sword you practice with on an altar. Always use two hands to offer or accept a sword.

        For a good spirit give your sword flowers. If you want a bad spirit give your sword meat.

        In the five-element theory, a sword being metal burns the air when used. This can give one a sore throat and hurt the voice. To avoid this, at the beginning of practice you touch the very tip of your tongue to the sword so you take in some of the metal to protect you from the fire.

        When you see antique Chinese swords and sabers, either naked (not mounted) blades or weapons which have lost their original scabbards, their blades are painted a vermillion red. The red paint is applied to unprotected blades in order to keep their "energy" from causing harm to those who handle them.

        Many Taoists do not prefer a metal sword for ritual, most of the time a carved peach wood that has been carved from a special peach tree or piece of a special peach tree that has been blessed. If you do see a metal sword, it is usually placed next to the altar, not on it. This is for protection and elementals.

        A Dao is not usually hung on a wall but placed on a stand. A dao with the blade facing up means the owner has passed away.

        Similarly, swords displayed with the handles to the right mean they are not in peaceful times and when the handle points to the left there is peace and it is not in use. However, these are more practical than superstitious reasons .

        One practice is to 'feed' your sword blood, especially your own blood and even better if your name is engraved on the sword (or if the sword has its own name engraved on it).

        This practice -- along with practicing with the right yi (or killing intention) is believed to make the sword come more 'alive'.

        There are also accounts of old weapons which have been used to kill and bring 'ill fortune', I say if something doesn't feel right, get rid of it!


        That should get us started...

        Uwe

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        • #5
          Very interesting! I wonder why sword etiquette in more pronouced in japanese culture.
          There are also accounts of old weapons which have been used to kill and bring 'ill fortune', I say if something doesn't feel right, get rid of it!
          I agree. I love to go into antique shops and just feel the differnt energies.

          In the five-element theory, a sword being metal burns the air when used. This can give one a sore throat and hurt the voice. To avoid this, at the beginning of practice you touch the very tip of your tongue to the sword so you take in some of the metal to protect you from the fire.
          This is very strange, I have never heard anything like that before. Would love to hear more if you got it.

          Kunoichi

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          • #6
            I will dig up some more and post it. Probably tomorrow.

            Uwe

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            • #7
              Thanks for posting and thanks for starting this thread.

              Very interesting reading, it's amazing how differently a sword is treated with ceremony and even superstition as compared to something like a gun. Must be the personal nature with which it is employed.

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              • #8
                I've been told that if you have a Japanese sword in a stand, if you keep it in its scalberd with the blade edge down, that's a sign of peace. A warrior would keep it blade edge up.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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                • #9
                  When setting the table it is proper to put the fork on the left side of the plate and the spoon (on the outside) and knife (on the inside) on the right side. The knife's blade should be facing to the right so if some one wanted to slit your throat from behind you with your knife they would have to spend the extra second turning the blade around.

                  While all of sword etiquette is interesting history. It is just that history.
                  "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                  • #10
                    I don't know, Rob. People can get pretty strange when it comes to their guns.

                    But it would make sense that more superstition is attached to the sword anyway, simply because it's a much older instrument.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tetsumaru
                      When setting the table it is proper to put the fork on the left side of the plate and the spoon (on the outside) and knife (on the inside) on the right side. The knife's blade should be facing to the right so if some one wanted to slit your throat from behind you with your knife they would have to spend the extra second turning the blade around.
                      With a butter knife?

                      Where did you find this tidbit, lol...
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


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                      • #12
                        Here's a relevant video:

                        [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFGcZ7nbbXg[/media]
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


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                        • #13
                          Doc,

                          I am back (PN later, It did not go too well...)


                          Although we started out with Chinese Etiquette, I think it would be interesting for our Bunch to know parts of the Japanese Etiquette also.


                          I. Etiquette for the Japanese Sword
                          In feudal Japan, bumping the sword's saya while passing one another or stepping over a sword while it was placed on the floor would be cause enough to start a fight. As admirers of the Japanese sword some elements of sword etiquette should be adopted to facilitate the safe and courteous handling of these respected objects.

                          1. One problem that did not exist in old Japan was the transportation of swords by automobile. If, during an accident, a fishing rod can pierce a car seat, think of what a sword blade can do! Always pack swords perpendicular to the normal line of travel.

                          2. Permission to examine a sword is always requested from the owner first.

                          3. Since some lacquer work is precious, the saya is held only with a gloved hand, a cloth or rice paper. Only the tsuka (hilt) is touched with the bare hand. A good habit to get into is to always carry some form of protection for saya handling whenever you may have opportunities to view swords.

                          4. Upon receiving the sword, you should show your respect by bowing to it. Remember, swords are more than pieces of metal and have a religious significance attached by some people. Whether or not you subscribe to this belief, you should honor the feelings of the sword owner and the efforts of the swordmaker. After properly receiving the sword, the first items to be admired are the koshirae (sword furniture or fittings) or the calligraphy on the shira saya (plain wooden scabbards and hilts), if any is there.

                          5. Permission should be asked again in order to withdraw the blade from the saya. If permission is granted, the saya should be held in the middle with the ha (cutting edge) upwards in the left hand. The blade is then slowly unsheathed by riding the mune (blade back) on the saya, taking care not to let the polished surfaces come into contact with any part of the saya. Whether drawing out a tachi or katana, one must hold the cutting edge up and grasp the saya from underneath in the left hand in a forward holding position. Then, hold the hilt from above with the right hand.

                          6. When handing a sword to someone you should continually keep the ha toward yourself.

                          7. When handing the sword to someone else, it is always held with the kissaki (point) upward and the ha toward the first holder with one hand close to the fuchi (front pommel) and the other supporting the kashira (rear pommel). This leaves enough room on the tsuka (hilt) for the other person to securely grasp the sword. You, the first holder, should also wiggle/jiggle the sword slightly as an indication that you, the first holder, are about to release your grasp. Upon receiving the sword, the new holder/viewer immediately turns the ha toward their body.

                          8. Definite precautions should be taken to prevent breathing on the polished surfaces of the blade. The blade may be held in either hand after the saya is carefully put down. If the sword has a fuduka (sword bag) , the saya should remain in it and the top of the bag end is folded over. This will protect the lacquered saya or a nice shira saya. Since the scabbard is rather tightly fit at the koiguchi (opening) where the habaki (collar) is fit, the initial pull must be very carefully made so that only the habaki's length gets drawn out.. Giving a sudden powerful pull may not only impair the opening of the saya but also might result in an uncontrollable jerk leading to injury. Holding the blade still, pull it entirely out of the saya very slowly making certain the cutting edge never faces down or sideways.

                          9. When you are examining a blade, you may support it with a piece of cloth or rice paper. Under no circumstances is the blade ever to be touched with bare hands or fingers. The acidic natural oils can cause rusting of the blade. Some people advocate the wearing of white gloves when handling a blade. This is a good practice.

                          10. Courtesy dictates that derogatory comments are not to be made, and kizu (defects, if any) are not pointed out unless the owner specifically asks the viewer to discuss the kizu in the blade. When a blade is placed back in the saya (scabbard), its case must be held by the left hand and the hilt by the right hand as in the pulling-out process. The tip of the sharp edge facing up must first rest gently on the opening of the saya. Again, holding the blade still, slide the blade along the channel into the saya. When the habaki (collar) reaches the opening of the case, a firm push is necessary to completely seat the blade in the saya. As before, the cutting edge must not face down or sideways.

                          11. When returning a sword from viewing , you must always keep the cutting edge toward yourself with the kissaki (point) upward. The tsuka (hilt) is presented so that it is easy for the receiver to grasp.


                          Uwe

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                          • #14
                            This old video demonstrates some of the things that Uwe mentioned.

                            [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4jxZQlTVDY[/media]
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


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                            • #15
                              lol The music in that last video is hilarious.

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