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  • Lohan Question?

    translation anyody? "Lohan She Pa Shou "...anyone else know this form?

  • #2
    Shi Ba Shou; it means, eighteen hands. You're talking about the 18 forms of Lohan, which no one seems to know. It's a set of forms which have not been passed down in their entirety. I've yet to meet anyone that knows anyone that knows the whole eighteen of them; Decheng knows two from what he told me.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #3
      well, this is the perfect vacuum in which to write an authoritative book with long-lost techniques. jackpot!

      - zach

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      • #4
        I think he is reffering to the form called "Lo Han Shi Ba Shou", it means 18 hands of Lohan.

        LoHan Shi Ba Shou is another style than the one you mentioned Doc, I have a friend in Shaolin named Hou Ting Ting he knows 9 of the 18 lohan forms.

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        • #5
          "Shi Ba Shou", I was referring to his pinyin spelling. We're talking about the same thing.
          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

          (more comments in my User Profile)
          russbo.com


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          • #6
            Thanks guyz...but thats wierd, I have this chart with the title"Louhan Shi Pa Shou" on it with a full form, of about
            50 steps, it kinda looks like an intermediate Longf Fist form, has some Lohan charachteristics ive seen b4, but it doesnt lok like the 18 hands, but thats the definate title. maybe i can scan it and post it some how, ill try.

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            • #7
              Just because things have the same name in Chinese rarely means they are the same. A lot of different gongfu styles like to use the same sort of terminology....meihua, 18, 108, luohan, changquan, jingang, etc, etc....but they refer to completely different things.
              -Jesse Pasleytm
              "How do I know? Because my sensei told me!"

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              • #8
                I thought that lohan shiba shou is only one form!
                Like tongbi chuan or liu he chuan.Ok,then the 18 lohan shiba shou is 18 forms?But what are they?

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                • #9
                  Yepp...that's what I thought too!...And it has also been said earlier, in other threads, that there are Louhan shi ba shou, xiao louhan quan, yi lu louhan quan, erlu louhan quan, and da louhan quan, which actually is yilu + erlu, 108 moves long.

                  Louhan shi ba shou is said to be 24 moves long, and is supposed to be one of the forms damo come down from the cave with, along with baduanjin, and some other qigong which name I forgot.
                  However, there seems to be several versions of this form, Iv'e seen 2 completely different ones, and heard of a third that is also different from the other two. So wich one is the correct one, I don't know, but someone said it is in the 4:th volume of the encyclopedia written by Shi de Qian. That ought to be the correct one.

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                  • #10
                    Also, about the 18 louhan hands, which is supposed to refer to 18 different forms, I'm thinking that maybe those forms are shaolin forms with other names, like for instance, Lian Huan Quan is supposed to be one of the louhan fists, atleast I read so. Maybe one's should not look for quans named "Louhan bla bla quan", but rather find which of the forms with different names belong to the Louhan style. ?

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                    • #11
                      Luo Han Shi Ba Shou.. if refering to the single Gong Fu form. That is in the video forum titled "Shao Lin Quan". There is a two person form with it. Another side. But basically this is what is practiced. There is another thread about the history and all. But this is the ancient form of Luo Han Shi Ba Shou. 18 movements and 24 techniques altogether.

                      As for what the 18 Luo Han forms are and whether the others have different types of names.. ask Shi De Qian.

                      A mi tuo Fo
                      -Xing Jian

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                      • #12
                        That is not a bad idea..

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kage_musha
                          Thanks guyz...but thats wierd, I have this chart with the title"Louhan Shi Pa Shou" on it with a full form, of about
                          50 steps, it kinda looks like an intermediate Longf Fist form, has some Lohan charachteristics ive seen b4, but it doesnt lok like the 18 hands, but thats the definate title. maybe i can scan it and post it some how, ill try.
                          Would you please scan that chart and post it here or email it to me?
                          I'd like to see exactly which form that is, thanks!
                          (I'd appreciate it).

                          It might be a southern KF form or from another style (Mi Jong, etc) that has lohan forms.

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                          • #14
                            Shaolin Shi Ba Shou (18 Hands) is various things, depending on what you are talking about.

                            1 - there is the Shaolin 18 Lohan form, which is medium length, and you can see the VCD for it here:



                            VCD#616 Shaolin 18 Hands of Arhat Boxing

                            2. There is the 18 Lohan series of forms, of which 9 lu or Roads are shown in the Shaolin Encyclopedia. Each road is a short set . Hardly anyone at Shaolin today knows all of them well, if at all. There are many really old books in Chinese that show all of these forms, I have a load of them.

                            3. The 9th Road is also a two - person form, a very important form that has many hidden secrets in it, such as the Five elements and 12 animals (like in Xing Yi). this form goes way back to the Yuan Dynasty when Monk Jue Yuan was working to preserve and revitalize Shaolin, he worked on the Lohan moves first, this form goes to way bach then, around then the form went over to the Hua Quan lineage, who have currently released a VCD set for both sides of the form:



                            If you the wisdom to understand, then check out this 18 Lohan form, its the one that I was posting a lot about before in the forums around Feb of this year.
                            It is the 24 move form.

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                            • #15
                              Why is all the Lo Han Quan info out there all screwed up?

                              I have yet to see correct info about Lohan forms anywhere.
                              Especially if Shaolin is the source of the data, it appears wrong all the time.
                              Their books, vcds, etc are all wrong. (pardon any mispellings).

                              There are in reality only these Shaolin Lohan forms that can still be found.

                              - Shaolin 18 Hands Forms Roads 1 to 9 (Shaolin Shi Ba Shaou)
                              - Shaolin 18 Fist form (Shi Ba Quan)
                              - Small 18 Hands form (Xiao Shi Ba Shaou) (Might be more modern)
                              - Small Lohan (Xiao Lohan Quan)
                              - 2nd Road Small Lohan (Er Lu Xiao Lohan Quan)
                              - Large Lohan (Da Lohan)
                              - 2nd Route or Refined Lohan (Er Lu Lohan Quan)

                              Okay, so that's about all of them that came out of Shaolin in the last 1,500 years.

                              1. The Shaolin Encyclopdia, the Shaolin Da Quan, Volume 2, shows 9 Roads (Da Lu) of a form called 18 Hands of Lohan. Road 9 is the oldest road, it comes to Shaolin from the Wah Quan style, back in the Yuan Dynasty period. It is the one made known in the book by Cai Long Yun, the 24 move, 2 person form and two other Shaolin forms books. So, is it out of sequence?

                              2. The Shaolin Encyclopedia Volume 2 also shows a form on page 188, called Shaolin Lohan Quan, but in actuality everywhere else this form is ONLY THE FIRST SECTION Of the real Shaolin DA LOHAN FORM. it's only a piece of the big Lohan form, the first 29 moves. And sometimes this form is called the Xiao, the small lohan, but that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

                              3. Shaolin Encyclopedia Volume 2, page 194, what they call the Er Lu Lo Han form, but it in actuality is known most places as the real XIAO LOHAN form, except the version shown in vol 2 is the longest version of the form seen anywhere else. So, the name of the form is wrong, but the fact that it has all the moves that are often missing everywhere else is good.

                              4. In Volume 2 of the book Shaolin Gong - Fu - A Course in Traditional Forms, by the Ta Gou School, on page 198, they show the correct Xiao Lohan Quan form, but it is missing the end section of the form (which is shown in the Er Lu Quan form in Shaolin Ency, volume 2 ).

                              5. The VCD BEB-844, Shaolin Lohan Quan, in actuality shows the form XIAO lohan quan, pretty much as shown in Volume 2 of Shaolin Gong - Fu - A Course in Traditional Forms, by the Ta Gou School, on page 198.

                              6. In Volume 3 of the book Shaolin Gong - Fu - A Course in Traditional Forms, by the Ta Gou School, the correct version of the real ER LU LOHAN Quan form, shown on page 293.

                              This form is incorrectly labeled as Lohan Quan form in the book Shaolin Chuan Tong Wu Shu Pu Ji Jiao Cai, Shaolin Quan volume, page 101. recently published.

                              7. Now, the VCD Shaolin Da Lo Han Quan, VW526-7, Chinese Kungu Wu Shu series
                              is really in actuality really the ER LU Lohan Quan Form, as shown exactly in Volume 3 of the book Shaolin Gong - Fu - A Course in Traditional Forms, by the Ta Gou School in Henan.

                              8. The VCD, BWS-226, Er Lu Lohan Quan, Chinese KungFu Series, shows the correct Er Lu form, as shown in Volume 3 of the book Shaolin Gong - Fu - A Course in Traditional Forms.

                              9. Also, the VCD, BWS-166-07 Shaolin Lohan Quan is actually the Er Lu Lohan form (not so great).

                              10. In Volume 3 of the book Shaolin Gong - Fu - A Course in Traditional Forms, by the Ta Gou School, on page 507, there is a form there correctly called Da Lohan Quan, but it is only 3/4th of the form.

                              11. The rest of the form is found in a book called Shaolin Shi ? Da Lu, ISBN 5349-1753-0, starting on page 296. Between the two books, the most complete version known so far of Da Lohan Quan can be put together, if a side by side comparison is done. I have done so.

                              12. In the book called Shaolin Shi ? Da Lu, ISBN 5349-1753-0, starting on page 256, is a form that they call Shaolin Lohan 18 HANDS, that they attribute to Li Shu, during the Yuan Dynasty. I have never seen this particular Lohan 18 Hands form anywhere else before. It looks nothing like anything I have ever seen.
                              (By the way, this same book shows the long lost Yi, Er, and San Lu forms of the Da Hong Quan forms, NOT the one that is currently taught at Shaolin, but the Da Hong Quan forms that match in style with the Xiao Hong Quan form everyone know, the one that is linked to the Tai Tzu Chang Quan form taught in Shaolin.)

                              13. The VCD VW522-7, Old Frame Hammering Series, 18 Hands of the Small Arhat (lohan) Boxing shows a very short 18 Hands form that doesn;t match anything I have seen anywhere else. IT is not one of the ones shown in roads 1 to 9 in the Shaolin Encyclopedia, but it is kinda close to Road 1 in that book. It is a mystery what form this very short form really is. Is it really a new training form? An abbreviated Road 1 of the 18 Hands of the Lohan?

                              14. Also, this VCD is a little bit close to the form called Lohan 18 hands on page 1 in the book Shaolin Chuan Tong Wu Shu Pu Ji Jiao Cai, Shaolin Quan volume and to the form called 18 Hands Route 1 in the Shaolin Encyclopedia. Between these two books, these two forms match, but the end of the form is slightly out of sequence from each other (moves are in reverse order at the end).

                              15. The VCD VW522-6, the Small Arhat (Lohan) Boxing, Old Frame Hammering series, shows a Lohan form that doesn't match up to what is really considered the Xiao Lohan form in correct sources. It is a mystery what form this is really.

                              16. The book, Shaolin Quan, volume 3, ISBN 7-81003-236-4, shows a long lost form called Er Lu Xiao Lohan Quan. it is supposed to be exactly what it is named, the second road of the real Xiao Lohan Quan form.

                              17. Finally, the book Shaolin Quan Wu Shu, volume 2, ISBN 7-81003-285-2, shows two forms from Lohan style, both incorrectly named. Page 38 has a form they call 18 Lohan Hands, which is the same form shown as Er Lu 18 Lohan Hands in the Shaolin Encyclopedia (the second form of the 18 Lohan hands sets). On page 47 there is a form they call Xiao Lohan Quan which is the same as the form called Lohan Quan in the Shaolin Encyclopedia, which makes it in actuality the first section of the Da Lohan Quan form, but for some reason it is called the Xiao Lohan Quan in this book.

                              Phew!!!!!

                              Anyone else care to make a stab at this?

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