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Thread: Several Things on Shaolin Gongfu...

  1. #1

    Post Several Things on Shaolin Gongfu...

    Hey folks, how's it goin'? This is my first post on this amazing website, but I'm a longtime reader and and fan of it. Now, I've been trying to research the roots of TRUE Chinese traditional Gongfu (kungfu) for a few years now. I've collected a quite a few books, reads TONS of information on the internet (inucluding this site, heh heh); some of the great books I've read are from Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming, (The Essence of Shaolin White Crane, a tremendously informative book on White Crane Chi Kung, and Shaolin Long Fist) he himself being a master of White Crane, Shaolin Longfist, and Yang Style Taijiquan. I've also got Shaolin Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit's book on Shaolin Kung Fu. I've even got a few videos of Shaolin Monks in action, heh, including the one where Doc comes out, Shaolin Ulysses, it showcases Shi Guolin, Zhang LiPeng (former Monk), Shi DeShan, Shi XingHao from Texas, and of course, Shi XingHong and Doc in Vegas. (You still got that Ferrari Doc? Ha.)

    Now, from what I've researched, every truly complete gongfu system, Shaolin or otherwise, must have the four aspects of combat, Striking, Kicking, Jointlocking, and wrestling (shuaiJiao) Northern systems specialized in kicking and medium to long range attacks, but also had short range; and Southern systems (like HungGar and white crane, specialized in short to medium range attacks, but also had long range. I don't wanna keep talkin' and talkin' too long here, heh, but I just wanted to show my loyalty to traditional Gongfu, heh.

    Anyway, Doc, since you've gotten a chance firsthand to see many shaolin exponents IN and OUT of the temple, (lucky bastard! heh heh) and have seen the changes with modern Wushu and Sanda, how is the traditional training now with masters like Shi DeCheng? Do you know if YanMing, LiPeng, DeShan, and Guolin, teach the harcore, traditional stuff? Also, do any of the monks still train in the fundamentals of White Crane, Tiger, TanTui (Springy Legs) or the Five Animals? I have hard Qigong (chi kung) demonstrations on video, but based on your experiences so far, can they still send explosive internal power (fa jing) on an opponent? And finally, what's your opinion on masters such as Wong Kiew Kit; have you had a chance to meet any of them?
    I know it's a lot of questions man, heh, but it's always an honor to hear from the Doc himself, ha.
    I've been trying to save up some money so I could make a trip to New York one day, and maybe i could speak to a few of the monks myself, (I wish, heh heh). Hell, who knows, I live about 490 miles southwest of Las Vegas, but maybe I'll stop by there along the way, haha.
    a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    thank you..... THANK YOU........ for bringing up WKK...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    No offense man, you seem to be far more knowledgable than i, but you might be better served looking for your own roots than to look for the roots of an amorphous idea like shaolin gongfu. Know your own root and you will know how to cultivate the flower of chan within yourself. I've seen alot of people argue about the roots of gongfu. Frankly I beleive it doesnt matter much. What matters to me is my own roots. Listen to your body.

    In reference to wkk......... you will find alot of good jokes, and very little unbiased info about him on this forum. I don't honestly know if he's a quack or not, because many of his claims are possible. But frankly I distrust any "master" who charges that much to learn qigong from him. I respect a master who forces you to go through (non monetary) trials and tribulations just to get to the place of training, but charging a thousand USD per day to learn basic qigong is bunk in my humble opinion. But I don't disagree with some of what others might call his "more rediculous claims" I beleive one person can change local weather patterns with their focused will. I've already seen people do it unconsciously, but thats a story for another day. And its not quite as interesting as my TCM excorcism story anyways So research your own root man, and may peace be with you.
    Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Blog Entries
    Daodejing, you say what needs to be said. It's good, I'm sometimes tired of saying it. We should hang out sometime; you go to Emperor's College, right? I've been thinking about attending there.

    Personally, from what I've read of WKK, I just don't get good vibes from. His book about Zen was horribly researched. Most of the stuff he fed in that book was "Cultural" or "Pop" Buddhism. In anycase I don't think I would take the chance to study with him; I think you have better choices in the world. And far cheaper from what I hear.

    "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

    "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

    "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

  5. #5
    how is the traditional training now with masters like Shi DeCheng? Do you know if YanMing, LiPeng, DeShan, and Guolin, teach the harcore, traditional stuff?
    As I've said in another post, you will tend to find more of the traditional gong fu being taught by the older generation monks. The younger generation monks tend to be exposed to more "wushu" competitive type gong fu, therefore, that's what they teach. I notice the difference even between Decheng and Xingwei.

    As for each individual monk, I won't comment. Each has their own, unique background, some with a tremendous amount of actual Shaolin temple experience, some with less. Their teachings will reflect that. But, each offers something unique, in his own, individual way.

    Which, is probably as it should be.

    Nice to have you on board.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003


    well, actually.. wkks book "the art of shaolin gung fu" is excellent

    "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

  7. #7
    Interesting. And Yes, Kit Wong's book "Art of Shaolin Kungfu" is a good book. But it's not just about Kiew Kit Wong though. I mean, there's also famed masters such as Tu Jing Sheng (has gotten a lot of media attention recently for his iron crotch skills), Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming, sifu Wing Lam. My question is do monks, such as DeCheng for example, only train in the forms? Or are they still able to teach and apply true internal power? (For Defense, something like Golden Bell Cover, for offense, something, like Iron Palm, (not the type that just breaks a few bricks, but advanced iron palm, that can directly disrupt the internal organs with a simple, relaxed, but powerful slap.) After all, arguably the greatest advantage the chinese fighting arts have in combat compared to other arts, is that they learn to use muscles AND their natural internal energy (chi); muscles by themselves get weaker as people get older, but with the extraordinary power of chi kung, age becomes much less of a factor...
    a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    I've heard that only 1st level iron palm still exists.
    practice wu de

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Yup fa hui, thats where I am all right. Great place, wonderful community. Do you live in the area or were you thinking of moving out there?
    Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

  10. #10
    Yup Fa Hui? What are you talking about?

    Also, about the reply that "only the 1st level iron palm" exists today; well, from what I've had a chance to research and read about, most likely, yeah, most gongfu places today probably only teach the beginning stages of Iron Palm. I strongly believe though, that there STILL are several masters around the world, that still have the knowledge of true Sil Lum (Shaolin) Iron Palm. Has anyone here ever heard of Grandmaster Pan Qingfu? He was nicknamed the "Iron Fist" of China; around the 1960's, in many cities in China guns were banned, and quite a few chinese triad members were exceptional gongfu fighters. The police at that time were having trouble taking out several of these criminals, so they hired some help from Sifu Pan Qingfu. Sifu Pan had been practising Iron Fist training since he was very young, and in one interview, he recalls how he would only use about 30% of his total power, whenever he'd strike the criminals. Most of them were out cold with one strike. Master Pan today lives in Canada, I think. To this day he still strikes a metal plate thousands of times a day.
    From what I understand Sifu Wing Lam is also has tremendous skill in Shaolin Iron Palm (as well as other styles of Iron Palm). However, do any of the monks still practice and/or teach this? Do they pratice sticky hands, or perhaps "bridge hands" sensitivity training? I know this is a complex issue, but that's why it's good to put these debates on the table. Besides, it kinda pisses me off whenever a so-called "mixed martial artist", like the ones that practice a few years of "sport karate", Taekwondo, and Judo, swear that they're the baddest mofos on the planet. I'm not saying all of them are assholes like that, but there's a lot of ignorant people in America (and other places) today, that don't understand that traditional Shaolin gongfu, can not only teach you some of the most effective methods in hand-to-hand combat, but can also truly cultivate the mind and spirit.

    PS. Doc, you haven't answered my question about the Ferrari, you still got it? Heh heh.
    a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

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