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  • Shi De Ru

    After doing a bit of research on De Ru, (Shawn Liu) I found some conflicting stories on him. Lots of the people seemed to question his validity as a Monk, but most of them seemed to be Sanshou people with a grudge against him for whatever transpired in the USAWKF.

    Now, noone is perfect and I understand that he may have made mistakes in the USAWKF or Sanshou community, but is there a basis for questioning his training at the temple? I'm just curious... Thanks.

  • #2
    There is no basis for questioning his training at the temple. In fact, I admire him for his humbleness.

    He has spent far more time training at the temple than others who use the "Shaolin monk" moniker, and, I might add, who have achieved far more fame by doing so.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #3
      I saw him throw a sick tornado kick at a tourney once. It was bad ass. From what I know he is the real deal.

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      • #4
        Wow, thanks for the quick responses!

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        • #5
          I trained with "master liu" over the summer at one of his training camps. Everyone is right on so far. He is not a monk I don't think he ever mentioned being a monk. He prefers being called Sifu Liu, not De ru. Deyang is his kung-fu brother and Grandmaster Su Xi is his master. He is a really good sanda fighter/teacher. One of his students, Patrick Barry is a k-1 fighter, up and coming. He does have alot of knowledge on TCM. He treated some of the students while we trained. I have heard he is very flamboyant as well. My current teacher here in Michigan said he used to wear very shiney Gold uniforms and such. He's a really nice, funny, and down to earth guy. Drives like a crazy man but overall an excellent teacher. So if you are ever in New Orleans or Mobile check his schools out or go to liuinstitute.com
          "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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          • #6
            De Ru is quite the guy, and, though he may not technically consider himself to be a monk, he has far, far more histiory at the temple, and knowledge, than some of those that do consider themselves to be shaolin monks.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #7
              gossip

              He was telling me a story about how he had to defend himself against some of his sanshou fighters that snuck into his hotel room on night. I didn't get the details but some of the students who heard other versions of the same story said he knocked them out. I told him he should write a book. I know I would be interested! anyone else?
              "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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              • #8
                Liu (De Ru) also has an interesting story about how he was jumped when he was attending a university in Mobile. He was, I guess, hit with a pipe and knocked out. He woke up to the thugs rifling through his pockets, so he broke one of their legs and knocked the others out. From this incicdent he went on to met the local sheriff and began teaching Tai chi and then gong-fu. If anyone knows more to this story please fill in the blanks!
                "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                • #9
                  Sounds like the story of him being attacked by the villagers in Shaolin.

                  Lots of stories goin round.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #10
                    That sounds like an interesting story! Never heard that...Have you met him?
                    "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                    • #11
                      Yes, a few times. He had stayed at my house a bit, over the years, for the annual Monksgiving events. Nice guy, very honorable, very respectable individual.
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


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                      • #12
                        wow...I didn't realize you had so many different people come to your "monksgiving". I thought it was mostly just people associated with the LV school. I have been trolling through the depths of the archives trying to catch on to what has been going on in the shaolin world. I want to know as much as possible but resources are limited. I am slowly realizing how many people have crossed paths with you. and how F'd up things are. Why do we stay so loyal to such a corrupt world? Is it the history or is it our faith?
                        "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tetsumaru
                          I am slowly realizing how many people have crossed paths with you. and how F'd up things are. Why do we stay so loyal to such a corrupt world? Is it the history or is it our faith?
                          Good question.

                          I have a story coming....
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The followig is posted under Shaolin Bullshit, by Doc, but I thought it would be relevant here as well.

                            "The Shawn Liu Incident: Soon to be published in IKF
                            I got this in an email way back in December of 2002. I think we had talked about this in the old forum. But, since Inside Kung Fu has decided to publish this, I thought it would be interesting to bring it back to life. I thought it was pretty entertaining.

                            Here's what was sent to me, from a friend, who got it from one of Shawn Liu's students.

                            The Truth behind the Shaolin Incidents: The Conflict Between the "Shaolin
                            Monks" and the Local Peasants and Residents


                            December 2002

                            Dear Friends;

                            On August 1st, 2002, Master De Ru, Shawn Liu, a 31st generation Shaolin
                            Master and disciple of the original Great Master Su Xi was attacked by
                            hundreds of peasants in the village of Tagou as he was leaving his native
                            village of Shaolin. There have been many questions, concerns and rumors
                            concerning the incident and the following interview is a Q&A gathered from
                            numerous email and telephone communications.

                            Many of us are not aware of the currently appointed Abbot, Yong Xin, of the
                            Shaolin Temple. Rather then appointing a traditional Monk, the Chinese
                            government appointed Yong Xin to essentially convert the temple and its
                            surrounding area into a tourist attraction. Since August 9, 2000, the
                            government has been demolishing the region without making proper arrangements
                            for the relocation of the Shaolin Scenic Park residents and surrounding
                            villagers. Not only has this caused many residents to become homeless with
                            nowhere to go to live but it has also destroyed many livelihoods, instilling
                            desperation and extreme hostility towards the Shaolin Monks. While many of
                            the original Monks, such as Master Liu, have tried to stop this destruction
                            and help the villagers, the Villagers, who for over a thousand years has
                            viewed the monks as their friends, instead, have, being unaware of what is
                            going on, begun to associate the destruction with the Temple (because the new
                            government installed abbot is the one leading the way).

                            The intention of this Q&A is to bring clarity, insight and advice to
                            fighters, travelers and mankind in general by addressing the root of the
                            animosity and how Master Liu dealt with it under extreme circumstances.



                            QUESTION: We have heard different stories about you being attacked by a mob
                            of villagers at the Shaolin Temple. What actually happened?

                            MASTER De Ru : Yes, I was attacked by hundreds of local peasants outside of
                            the Shaolin Temple.

                            I was walking at dusk by the Pai Fang (the gate separating the village of
                            Tagou and the village of Shaolin), near the entrance to Shaolin Village,
                            wondering why a crowd of several hundred people were blocking the road. I
                            was videotaping, as I always do when I vist the temple, when suddenly a loud
                            voice shouted, "He is Yong Xin's people!" Of course, I was not. I had lived
                            in the temple as a monk for decades before Yong Xin, but the villagers did
                            not look to see who I was, they just saw a monk from the temple and reacted.
                            A few people grabbed my camera. I tried to explain that I was a real monk and
                            disciple of the Great Master Su Xi's (still very respected among the
                            villagers). I further tried to tell them that I was the head coach of the
                            national Wushu-Sanshou team of America. But the mob was too angry to hear
                            anything. They were not listening. All I could hear was "Beat him, Beat
                            him to death!" Then they began to attack me from all directions, striking me
                            in the face, head, and body, mostly from young peasant fighters out in front.
                            At that point, I was faced with a choice, a choice that could be considered
                            a classic test for a true Monk of the temple. I knew, even in that moment,
                            they were not angry at me, but at the abbot and what was being done to the village. My choice was to respond with force. With literally
                            hundreds of people coming at me, the only way for me to have responded would
                            have been to severely hurt villagers. If I had responded and done
                            significant injury to even but a few villagers, the rest would back off. But
                            that was not an option for me. How could I, as a Monk, even when being
                            attacked, do harm to people merely responding to a such a situation. I could
                            not. These were good people and I could not hurt one of them. Furthermore,
                            as a Monk, I could not feed into Villagers views about the what they thought
                            the temple was doing by hurting them. I could only muster all of my energy
                            to protect my body and attempt to withstand the attack. I do not believe
                            someone without my training would have survived such an attack. I had to
                            merely take, without responding, the force of hundreds flocking around me.
                            Then, an elderly man who recognized me yelled at the crowd, "Don't! -- He's
                            Su Xi's disciple!" But it was not the time for reason. They were losing
                            their homes and livelihoods, with no notice or compensation. They begun to
                            attack the old man as well. I covered the old man to protect him, as he
                            wouldn't have survived the blows.


                            QUESTION: Did you fight them at all?

                            MASTER De Ru : No, as I said, I did not retaliate. If I was an ordinary
                            civilian fighter, I might have fought a bloody path out of the crowd. It
                            wouldn't have been easy, but it could have been done (with more injuries).
                            But as a Shaolin 31st generation disciple of Great Master Su Xi and head
                            Coach of the U.S. National Sanshou Team, I could not even think of it. First,
                            with my training, the injuries I would have caused would have been
                            significant, and I could not bear the thought of having hurt, or done worse,
                            to these honest villagers. I represent the very essence of martial arts and
                            the Shaolin Temple and therefore my actions carry greater consequences than
                            the ordinary fighter. My responsibilities are much greater.

                            I have fought hundreds of fights (sanctioned and un-sanctioned) over the past
                            40 years, and I sustained more injuries in this one attack than in my entire
                            fighting career, but I was willing and able to endure and tolerate the
                            beatings from these peasants who were being wrongly treated and only, wish I
                            could have done more to help relieve their suffering. If that meant perishing
                            in this life in exchange for the sufferings of many, I would willingly have
                            done it.

                            During the highly charged time of the attack, emotions ruled, total hatred
                            toward the new Abbot was palpable, and no words would be heard by the mob.

                            Total chaos erupted. Rocks hit my head as I helped the elderly man. I had
                            to get to a place where fewer people could attacked, so I pushed and dodged
                            through the crowd, to retreat to a Wushu Studio Sword Factory back door where
                            the road was narrower and fewer people could fit in.

                            People fell behind as we backed into the factory yard. Still, the elderly man
                            needed protection, leaving me more vulnerable, and repeated efforts to
                            explain were met with more shouts of "Kill him!" Eventually, things calmed
                            down as a few older villagers from the Shaolin Village recognized me and told
                            the crowd who I was. One man from the village recognized me as his teacher.
                            It was only then that everyone realized they had made a big mistake. When
                            they stopped and realized who I was, I think they had a renewed respect; they
                            realized I could have fought back and hurt them, but I did not. I therefore
                            taught the villagers a greater lesson in not attacking then by attacking.
                            While I was injured, I implored them to cease the violence because it would
                            not accomplish anything, despite the injustice. "This is the only way we
                            know," they replied in desperation. "We won't have a home to live in if we do
                            not fight. We hate evil monks because our homes will be destroyed without
                            compensation -- even if they promise compensation, there is no guarantee.
                            Yong Xin is behind this." The people were, understandably, driven mad by
                            rage.

                            I am content with my reaction to the attack, that is, in having not resisted,
                            and I would do it again if necessary, to the extent that my bodily suffering
                            can help the people and uphold the time-honored Shaolin tradition of
                            non-violence. The practice of promoting benevolence to all sentient beings
                            is the most important spiritual aspect of Shaolin, and the reason why the
                            reputation of the Temple and its traditions have remained so strong for over
                            1,500 years. Although it may seem ironic that I, as an undefeated fighting
                            champion, and a Shaolin trained Monk who had lived in the temple much of my
                            life, allowed myself to endure such a beating, the incident serves as an
                            example of the self-discipline and self-control that martial artists seek.
                            With great power comes great responsibility. The angry peasants, in this
                            case, were merely resorting to the only recourse they believed they had,
                            which was, unfortunately, violence.


                            QUESTION: Shifu, I went to the Shaolin Temple with you. Everyone greeted you
                            and talked to you. How could they make such a mistake?

                            MASTER De Ru : The incident happed in Pai Fang, near theShaolin village, not
                            in the Shaolin Village; this is close to a mile from the Temple. The
                            majority of the crowd was Tagou Villagers and many small street
                            Venders/merchants that had migrated there from other remote areas over the
                            last 15 years. There were many young fighters, 20 years old or younger, who
                            may not have known me. Although I lived at the temple much of my life since
                            childhood, I have been in the US for 17 years now. While the older
                            villagers, many who may have studied under me, would recognize me, many of
                            the young villagers under 20,
                            would not know me. Some of them explained that they saw me around the Temple
                            at times, but didn't recognize me for who I was.

                            QUESTION: Did they regret what they did to you?

                            MASTER De Ru :

                            "We do not hate all the Shaolin Monks but the evil ones. But how do we know
                            who is good?" The peasants seemed confused, I continued to convey to them
                            the message of non-violence.

                            They apologized to me again and again for what they had done. A few came to
                            shake my hand and some bowed to me saying "We are so sorry". They insisted on
                            helping me to the hospital, but I needed to see my Shifu as I was worried he
                            would try to come down to the village after hearing the reports that I was
                            attacked and would be hurt as well.

                            I arrived back at the temple and my Shifu was indeed worryied about me while
                            surrounded by our many monk brothers. My Shifu, Great Master Su Xi, is
                            respected and loved not for his abilities in self-defense, but rather for his
                            tolerance, forgiveness, his benevolence and his love for people in spite of
                            their ignorance against him during the cultural revolution. He is the last
                            remaining original Monk (was in the temple pre-revolution) still living in
                            the Shaolin Temple today.

                            A woman in her eighties and others came the day after the attack to apologize
                            to my teacher, Great Master Su Xi, as well as to me. They said the following:

                            "We are all truly sorry for mistaking you for the wrong person. We never
                            wished to hurt you. The village realizes you were a disciple of old monk Su
                            Xi, who has always been so kind, benevolent and good to us. He is very
                            respected here for teaching everyone martial arts."

                            I told them I held no grudge against them, and that I hoped they could get
                            resettled, after negotiations with the proper authorities, without being
                            driven into homelessness.



                            QUESTION: Do you think you would have gotten out of it if you had fought back?

                            MASTER De Ru : To survive in the midst of an angry mob of hundreds wishing
                            you dead is not an easy task for even a shaolin monk. I believe anyone else
                            would not have survived such an attack. I took me time to recover in deep
                            meditation.

                            I must admit, in the midst of the rocks hitting me, there was a brief moment
                            when I wanted to figh, but my heart and reason took over right away. I am
                            happy with what I accomplished by taking no action. In essence, it is the
                            best action I could have taken.

                            I preserved my intergrity, but most importantly, I protected the Shaolin
                            Temple's name. The most important thing in the spirit of Shaolin is to
                            relieve people from suffering and spiritual death. My Shifu always told me
                            "with great power comes greater responsibility to save lives, not to destroy."

                            If I fought back, the consequences would have been dramatically different.
                            The injuries and damage I could have caused to such a large number of people
                            would have been great. But, I not only represented the US, as coach of the
                            Team, but I also represented my Shifu, the Great Master, and the only " Old,
                            Spiritual Monk" left at the Temple in China. I could not imagine a greater
                            test for a Shaolin Monk. If I had done different, if I had fought back, I
                            don't believe I would have walked away still a Monk; I could not have called
                            myself that. I won the heart of the people without fighting. That is my
                            greatest triumph.


                            QUESTION: What is happening to the Shaolin Temple now?

                            MASTER De Ru : The Shaolin Temple has suffered many hardships and
                            persecutions over the past fifteen hundred years (since 495 A.D.), not the
                            least of which were the war lord bombing, Cultural Revolution, the European
                            and Japanese invasions, but it has survived each time. [Currently, the greed
                            and exploitation of unchecked capitalism is the greatest threat, and the
                            tourist dollar is widely believed to be a driving force behind the dramatic
                            changes at the Temple over the last several years.]

                            When the peasants attacked me, it immediately brought me back to the days
                            when my Shifu was attacked by the local peasants and especially the Red
                            Guards, during the Cultural Revolution. He was kicked down to the ground,
                            hardly able to lift his head for a breath, much less walk. He was forced to
                            kneel down on the ground and bow to people for hours with a sign that read,
                            "the five evil kinds." He was bleeding, as I was during my attack.

                            During the Cultural Revolution, I was afraid of being recognized as having
                            any connection as a Monk's disciple because monks were regarded as "bad
                            people," enemies of the country. I later used my Sanshou skills to fight for
                            the country. And now, with the growing appreciation internationally for the
                            Shaolin tradition, it is all the more tragic - but perhaps emblematic of the
                            yin-yang principle -- that the Temple should suffer from its own success as
                            the new Abbot and local government work to transform the town to promote
                            tourism.


                            QUESTION: What happened after the attack?

                            MASTER De Ru : I spent two days of quick healing and one day and night of
                            meditatio. Many of my Shaolin brothers came to take care of me and give me
                            strength and power to deal with my injuries.

                            This life and death situation has given me a new perspective on life, one
                            that awakens my capacity to cherish, to live and to serve.

                            The attacks I faced were a wake-up call insisting on our realization of a gro wing need for a basic understanding between people and cultures.


                            QUESTION: How did you go about your healing process?

                            MASTER De Ru : I spent at least 26 hours meditating, doing Qi Gong to
                            recuperate from the injuries. I summoned all the conscious and subconscious
                            systems into one awareness, starting with basic breathing techniques to calm
                            my mind. In doing this I was able to bring all my cells into awareness and
                            open my vessels in order to release the tension wherever there was tension.

                            The basic deep and consciously regulated breathing brings the body and mind
                            into one consciousness. Reprogramming the mind further regulates one's
                            breathing, resulting in the delegation of responsibility to each of the
                            body's systems improving the flow of oxygen to the bloodstream as well as the
                            blood's circulation.

                            The mind has the ability to inform the body's systems to repair itself and
                            improve its functions to work more efficiently. It will also produce a
                            natural chemical or healing agent also referred to as QI. It is the most
                            efficient way for your body to heal.

                            Your body can be the most effective factory to produce the most effective
                            drug in the world. One just needs the recipe found within the genes. The
                            information can be accessed at any time, but only after having ridden oneself
                            of both social and cultural interference through deep breathing and quiet
                            meditation.


                            QUESTION: What advice can you give to young fighters and martial artists
                            based on this incident?

                            MASTER De Ru : Fighters need to learn how to heal themselves in the most
                            efficient and effective manner. It is through meditation one learns the basic
                            senses needed to survive. To be a good martial artist, you need not only know
                            how to fight, but how to heal. That is the most important and highest level of all.

                            To be a martial artist is to know how to be tolerant, how to discipline
                            oneself and control oneself under the most extreme set of circumstances.

                            A martial artist must always remember the basic martial arts ethics and
                            principles, without them martial arts becomes nothing more than simple
                            physical exercise. Respect, tolerance, integrity, discipline and control are
                            the essence of the Shaolin Temple. Even risking your own life to save others.


                            QUESTION: Is it safe to visit China?

                            MASTER De Ru : For those who wish to visit China, I believe it is safe,
                            especially Beijing, Shanghai and many big cities. Your best bet is to have a
                            guide or tourist agency handle your agenda. They know where to go and how to
                            make your travel more efficient and pleasant. The attack on me was because I
                            was in my traditional Shaolin Monk uniform. Such an attack would not likely
                            occur on tourists."
                            "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tetsumaru
                              I trained with "master liu" over the summer at one of his training camps. Everyone is right on so far. He is not a monk (<---I'm an idiot and I would like to retract that statement allong with the following.--->) I don't think he ever mentioned being a monk. He prefers being called Sifu Liu, not De ru. Deyang is his kung-fu brother and Grandmaster Su Xi is his master. He is a really good sanda fighter/teacher. One of his students, Patrick Barry is a k-1 fighter, up and coming. He does have alot of knowledge on TCM. He treated some of the students while we trained. I have heard he is very flamboyant as well. My current teacher here in Michigan said he used to wear very shiney Gold uniforms and such. He's a really nice, funny, and down to earth guy. Drives like a crazy man but overall an excellent teacher. So if you are ever in New Orleans or Mobile check his schools out or go to liuinstitute.com

                              I was ignorant of some facts about Shi De Ru when I wrote this so ignore the stuff that sounds like an arrogant bastard wrote it.
                              "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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