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  • #31
    when i see the words "secret history" i do get skeptical...

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    • #32
      Yes Doc, very intelligent response, automatically calling calling liberal dribble what you haven't even really looking into yet. Trust me, this guy doesn't get over emotional and start yelling out "the evil bastards are taking over the world!" or nothing like that. It's a very well documented, well detailed book with a buttload of sources from all over. I respect Nafeez M. Ahmed precisely because he doesn't just like running around making baseless claims, like some liberal (and conservative) authors do. Doc, you especially, have no reason, NOT to try reading the book, I'm sure the price is really not a problem for ya at the moment, ha. You drive a Ferrari for crying out loud, heh heh heh. Besides, you wanna see some weak claims and baseless slander, all you gotta do is change it to Fox News (what's their motto now? "We report, you decide", ha.)
      a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

      Comment


      • #33
        I like Fox news. Far better than CNN.

        The price of the book is meaningless. The time to read it is precious, unfortunately. But, from reading the editorial review, I saw certain concepts and keywords that gave me the impression that the book was not "fair and balanced", lol. Besides, look who the author is (http://nafeez.mediamonitors.net/background.html)

        I've read a lot of books in my time MT. A lot of books. I prefer reading good, unbiased, history books. But if I have some time while in China, I'll try to get through it.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


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        • #34
          CNN definitely leans to the left, and FOX definitely leans to the right, but both are far from making completely baseless claims or all-out false reporting. they're not great (if you want real news, read a paper), but they're mostly fair, especially compared with a lot of **** from around the world we could be seeing...

          - zach

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          • #35
            Doc: "I prefer reading good, unbiased, history books."

            Then I suggest you stay away from Fox News ASAP, hahaha. Fox News is so blatantly right-wing its ridiculous man. Let's see, Rupert Murdoch is the owner. He owns pretty much all things Fox (Fox News, 20th Century Fox, etc.) He's pretty much extremely wealthy. Funny thing is, a lot of these guys who are neo-cons and very rich, in the end forget about their own conservative values, as long as it makes more money for them. Honestly Doc, Fox News? Come on man. The sensationalism on that channel is so thick I could cut it with a knife. Perhaps you like it 'cause of the cool graphics? Heh heh. That's only part of the problem though. I don't particularly like CNN. Don't like MSNBC much either. In case you haven't realized by now, all of these major news organizations are CORPORATE OWNED. That means they are limited as to what they can get away with saying. There's still some half-decent reporting that goes through sometimes, but it's few and far between. Once a news organization is no longer independent, their credibility isn't exactly first-rate. I don't think CNN is left OR right wing; same with MSNBC. The problem with those is that they're simply afraid of asking tough questions. Plain and simple. It becomes a matter of ratings instead of tough journalism. I find Fox News the most hilarious because it's just so blatantly right-wing. Because most TV news is crap, I was inspired to read more. "Liberal" or "Conservative", it doesn't matter, as long as one makes a valid, strong, response to current events. It's always important to find the ROOT of a problem. If you want to kill the lizard, don't cut its tail off, it will just grow back. In a similar fashion, don't just ask yourself why Saddam was a "bad man", find the roots of the situation. Who put him in power? Why did they? Why did they continue giving him chemical weapons after knowing how brutal he was? Who was going to be elected or chosen before him? Are people profiting off of this? Then solve the issues ASAP, and bring the people involved to justice. If you don't find the root of a problem, then you'll never understand why it happened, and you'll risk having it happen again.
            By the way, what was wrong with Nafeez? I failed to see anything wrong with him in that website you gave. You've failed to give a valid response to any of the issues that have been placed on the table, Doc.
            It's okay though Doc, you still kick ass.
            a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

            Comment


            • #36
              whoops that last little smiley face, was supposed to be a "Thumbs Up" instead of that "closed eyes" face.
              a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

              Comment


              • #37
                meat man,

                it's no secret that the U.S. gave saddam weapons for a while. the media's not afraid to ask the "big questions", as you put it, in that regard. the point of the media is to cover current events. whether or not the U.S. helped saddam in the past is rather immaterial to how we feel about him now. what you call the "root of the problem" is more the territory of one-hour history channel specials, not journalism.

                and as far as who was making money off saddam, well, france and germany. coincidentally they avidly opposed sanctions in iraq, and most recently, the war. now they want to cash in on iraq, but these days, it's america who's making money off it. oh well.

                on the bright side, if the iraqis can calm the **** down, they're looking at a very bright economic future. possibly.

                - zach

                Comment


                • #38
                  zach: "...it's no secret that the U.S. gave saddam weapons for a while. the media's not afraid to ask the 'big questions', as you put it, in that regard. the point of the media is to cover current events..."

                  Did the media look deeply into this in 1980's back when it was "a current event"? And I'm not just talking about Saddam. It's about the whole mid-east region. By the way, I watch lots of history channel, and none of them have made any documentary on things like Afghanistan decades back. The U.S. gov't was supporting the Taliban for several years with food, money, etc. The Plan to attack Afghanistan was not because of 9/11. It had been in plan since 1994, (I can't recall for sure if it was '94, I had the exact date somewhere in one of the reports around here somwhere...) The Afghanistan conflict itself is a very complex issue. Both Russia and US exploited the hell outta that country, then it had civil war, strife, poverty, pretty much hell. Both the Northern Alliance and the Taliban commited rapings, wars of "attrition", lootings, torture of prisoners... it's a very complex issue...
                  Also, The US/UK, both profitted more and way before France and Germany got on the bandwagon...

                  I do agree with you on the Iraqis at this point, that they need to calm the **** down. They could use a Ghandi figure over there, heh.
                  a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Meat

                    Fox rules.

                    They have good looking babes as anchors.
                    Hannity is pretty damn smart.
                    OReilly is pretty damn arrogant, though in a cute way
                    Colmes is a liberal monster, but, he's fun to listen to.
                    They have good looking babes as anchors.
                    Smith's news is hilariious.
                    They have pretty graphics.
                    They have an interesting, in your face, comical, satirical attitude, that this old New Yorker appreciates.
                    They have good looking babes as anchors.
                    Funny thing is, a lot of these guys who are neo-cons and very rich, in the end forget about their own conservative values, as long as it makes more money for them.
                    These people also tend to become bleeding heart, completely lost in their own little world, liberals. Just look at hollywood, and all the morons that inhabit it.

                    I'm glad I still kick ass. That made my day.

                    Really.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


                    Comment


                    • #40
                      doc, i think it's time for you to rap.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hahaha, yes Doc, don't worry man, heh, no matter what, you shall always kick ass. Your statements as to why you like Fox News has pretty much destroyed all yer credibility though, hahahaha. (It seems hot women and pretty movie-like graphics/sounds have a deciding factor, heh heh heh.) Sean Hannity is smart? Man, I'll just pretend you didn't say that, lol. He brings out a guest with a different point of view, and then he doesn't let them talk and cuts off their mic. Doesn't make any sense. This guy probably gets paid damn well. Honestly man, the guys the most ridiculously exaggerated pundit since Bill O'Reilly; except O'Reilly's a bit more bitter. What can I say though, both of them are marketable and boost ratings. Which is precisely what news organizations stress over: ratings, not fair reporting. They do have hot babes though, hahaha. If you want intelligent, political satire, why not just watch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart? They don't have the hot babes there, but it's way more witty and entertaining to watch, heh.
                        Zachsan, for simply having that cool picture of Jeff Buckley in contemplation, you too, kick tremendous ass.
                        (Doc's gonna rap? Maybe he should get in touch with the RZA from Wu-Tang Clan, he's still a student of Yan Ming isn't he? lol.)
                        a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          meat man -

                          a lot of these operations that you're referring to - such as putting the taliban and saddam in power - were hardly public knowledge when they were happening. honestly, i was around 7 at the time, so i don't know what the hell the media was doing in regards to these things. but whatever the media's job is, it definitely isn't to bust open highly classified operations when we were in an intelligence war with the greatest threat our country's ever known. besides, ****, i would rather be dealing with people like saddam and OBL over the USSR any day.

                          we did make money off iraq before france and germany started, they kept making money on it after we stopped, and now we're making money on it again. but that doesn't really have much to do with my point.

                          and while i'm not so sure about your specific example regarding afghanistan, i do agree with you that 9/11 was used as license to put a lot of preexisting plans in motion that otherwise may have been shot down by congress. whether or not that's a good thing, time will tell. but that's the main reason i don't really trust bush.

                          - zach

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                          • #43
                            i would rather be dealing with people like saddam and OBL over the USSR any day.
                            Come on Zach, you're an intelligent guy. How can you even think such a thing?

                            There's a huge difference between the USSR and the nuts with OBL.

                            The USSR has something to lose.

                            In any sort of conflict, that's a significant factor.
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


                            Comment


                            • #44
                              well of course. that made the USSR more predictable and easier to deal with in some ways. but today, we're facing the strong possibility of a nuke going off in new york. that's bad. back then, we were facing the possibility of the entire world getting blown up. that's really bad.

                              - zach

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Nice reply, my friend...

                                Neither Russia or United States was pure evil or other such nonsense. Both sides had good people and patriots, but both sides also had some bad people with their own agendas. Both sides used the media as propoganda to scare the crap outta each other's peoples. Both sides eventually seeked excessive riches and exploited poorer, third-world nations in favor of their own greed.
                                But I understand where you're coming from Zachsan, and you made a good reply overall.
                                Ha, you're not an "uneducated brute" as you stated before, hell you're the one who's been crazy enough to debate with me the most.

                                We have our hands full with the situation in Iraq as of now, and I sincerely believe that, if we are serious about making improvements and peaceful solutions to these grave situations, we need some foreign policy reform.

                                Peace y'all, stay strong...
                                a true gongfu system must have the four major aspects of combat to be complete, "striking", "Kicking", Chin'na (joint-locking), and Shuai-Jiao (Wrestling)... in addition it must combine the internal with the external...

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