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  • #16
    READ, folks....


    Godzilla is not an ape.
    Whatever doesn't kill me had better be able to run damn fast.

    "You are one of the most self-deluded immature idiots I've come across here for a time..." —Blooming T. Lotus

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    • #17
      most san da comes from traditional forms...fo to tui, cechau tui...

      I mean, punching is pretty traditional.

      kicking is pretty traditional....

      I question what people think this stuff is supposed to look like when it's in a fight....much of the problem is in training- most ring fighters train as athletes train.

      You're not going to get to any level doing an hour long class at Ricky's Mantis Fist Kung Fu Academy wedged inbetween a dry cleaners and a Carvel.
      "Arhat, I am your father..."
      -the Dark Lord Cod

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      • #18
        I think hung gar is a bigger theat then wushu. At least with wushu you get a work out. lol I am just kidding don't start busting arteries.

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        • #19
          lol hung gar sux and woo shoo does 2. lololol owned.

          And BL, What the **** are you talking about?
          Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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          • #20
            lol mortal yeah I agree hung gar sux lol butt then agan woo shoo sux 2, lol.

            BL what the hell are you talking about?
            Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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            • #21
              it's got to be the drugs....
              ZhongwenMovies.com

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              • #22
                Stupid double-post.
                Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by master splinter
                  well, take a look at the complexity of the styles in mention.

                  kickboxing, this is pretty much as easy as it gets when it comes to remembering moves and applications, no cryptic messages, simple principles, simple effective moves and execution, relying on their brute strength and conditioning. a ring fighter can be made in about 2 years minimum. on the other hand, you have tma's, which are much more complicated as a system and harder to master, taking decades to reach the ideal proficiency level, it is alot of information to remember and actually be able to USE it, and, it is not really modernized, the creators of these arts did not ever encounter these big huge muscle types, they were used to fughting people of equal stature,.

                  I take it you were there? Ya know, all those asian guys were short they made there systems to fight the same height and weight.....




                  Originally posted by master splinter
                  so in my opinion the moves arent really affective in fighting larger stronger opponents, and the ones that are, are usually to deadly to perform in the ring,.
                  Too deadly... lol, yeah, thats why no one does them.. how the hell do you train them then?

                  this is a sad day...



                  Originally posted by master splinter

                  ahighly trained deadly tmaist, would most likely just rip your guts out, pull your nuts off, tear your throat etc. but with the prevalence of aids and other transmittable diseases, i dont see the logic in that..
                  Of course you wouldn't.... AIDS is NOT the reason TMA is not ripping guts out and pulling your nuts off.

                  Originally posted by master splinter
                  these arts are not sport arts, but MARTIAL KILLING arts, when you bring them to the sport side, you take away alot of their effectiveness, judo is a prime victim of this, judo is a more effective art then jiu jitsu, the kodokan of the olden days proved it, but certain things like atemi waza techniques taught to jigoro kano by he founder of shotokan karate, have been stripped away due to the deadliness of them. also, most of these arts train you to be sneaky in application, using principle that your opponent does not understand, while an art like kickboxing just teaches you how to beat the crap out of someone, plain and simple. honestly, i dont think modern fighters posses the skill or devotion to their tma's to be able to represent them in a ring, back in those days, all one had was his martial arts, it was thier life, nowadays, people train to be cool, or bring glory to themselves. jiu jitsu is so effective because it has the power to cut the fight short very quickly, dont let em grab you or its over, they will twist your ass up like a pretzle, break your limbs, or choke the life out of you in a second. also tma's are stuck in tradition. take a child, train him in tma's all his life, the way they used to do it, then combine a rough conditioning regimen, and possibly bulk him up to about 200 pounds of muscle like most of these cage fighters are, and i bet you would find a new breed of cagefighter. dont forget, that kickboxing and jiu jitsu DERIVE from the traditional martial arts.

                  I'm not going to bother pulling the rest of this apart right now.. as it is a pain in the ass to read. The only thing I'll say about that last part, is say that to Chuck Liddel or Crocop...
                  practice wu de

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                  • #24
                    "I question what people think this stuff is supposed to look like when it's in a fight....much of the problem is in training- most ring fighters train as athletes train."

                    there are countless skills in shaolin, shaolin fighters arent supposed to look like anything, you arent even supposed to see our technique. whoever gets caught up in the shell of technique does not understand the energy that is suppsed to be applied. if they dont understand that, then they have no respect for the structural power of the techniques, and they loose faith and question and doubt

                    "The thing is that when in the ring, given the rules and conditions of the ring, any form of tma will be dissolved into kickboxing and j-j, for the reasons you pointed out. The fights need to end quick. It's not who can kill whom, it's who can dominate under these conditions. So therefore, even a tma practitioner would be reduced to these fighting styles. Therefore, it would be a waste of time and energy to actually go through with training a person under tma and intend him for the UFC."

                    hey u used 'therefore' twice in a row..good job!

                    listen, i disagree, the difference between shaolin and a kickboxer isnt the way they look, because no matter how hard you look we are all still humans ok. Like arhat said, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick. the difference is how the power is generated and how the energy that is produced is manipulated and focused to different parts of the body. thats what seperates us, technique as you should well know is not the all consuming factor of a fight, moreso power and speed, but you cant have the latter without the foundation, and the techniques are simply built off the foundation.
                    "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                    • #25
                      right..people want to see a 'mantis' block and then they'll think there is TCMA in UFC?

                      Come on...the shell don't mean shit to me. same results can be achieved independently.
                      "Arhat, I am your father..."
                      -the Dark Lord Cod

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                      • #26
                        I agree with pazman,it's too easy to criticize.
                        Then what i think is:that day i will get the same physicall conditioning the wu shu athletes have!I will be pretty comfy for my fighting training.Come on guys,today if you want to fight you buy a gun!

                        That's why there is wu shu,in Martial arts there is Art no?Therefore i think that you can be a very bood gymnast and a good fighter at the same time.These guys know better than anyone how to use they're body in space,i wish i had they're skills...sniff!

                        Anyway my opininon is:whoever practises any style of kung fu and doesn't have any experience in full contact,in real or in a ring...don't know how to fight.I realized that when i first attended my first Muay Thai lesson,these guys are real fighters,they know how to cope with real pain and have hughe stamina(how can you be a fighter anyway else-in a fight anyone gets knocked at least once-and most of these kung fu "pupils" would fall KO after one jab in the head-)LOLOLOL.

                        Sorry it's out of topic now i should stop there!
                        The East? The West?

                        Men and Women, that's all...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by LeiYunFat
                          lol mortal yeah I agree hung gar sux lol butt then agan woo shoo sux 2, lol.

                          BL what the hell are you talking about?

                          are you confusing me with BL?
                          Whatever doesn't kill me had better be able to run damn fast.

                          "You are one of the most self-deluded immature idiots I've come across here for a time..." —Blooming T. Lotus

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            "Come on...the shell don't mean shit to me. same results can be achieved independently."

                            the shell is the the shape, thats what i mean, the shape is the "best and the worst", because beginners dont understand the shape enough to get the full potential out of the technique and they dont understand how to exploit the energy therein. this leads to misunderstandings of the movements and their purpose, which leads to a lack of faith, which ultimately makes people fail to apply shaolin gung fu

                            you cant practice shaolin forms(or hope to apply the techniques taught) without proper energy distribution to the various parts of the body, this also correlates with the 6 harmonies but is also backed up by yin/yang energy, which makes the qi energy present in all directions and movements. and this is only possible with proper structure

                            in shaolin, they spend much of their time(as in the past) training speed, power, stamina etc are these the results you are talking about? if so, your right, speed and power can be achieved independent of the form or technique, but there arent thousands of shaolin forms and techniques for nothing, to me the shell isnt shit, its the gold. in the past learning forms and techniques were the last thing to be emphasised, not because they were the least important, but because they were the most advanced.
                            "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Arhat
                              "Come on...the shell don't mean shit to me. same results can be achieved independently."
                              What I mean is that when I hear someone say they want to see a crane's beak or golden rooster block in the UFC, and that would be proof that TCMAs "work," it means to me they are not grasping the concept of many TCMAs- because it is not the external form of the block/attack per se...which is why SYM and other monks will always say I can hit you from any position and knock your head clean off.

                              As you said, the six harmonies don't need a set pattern called the golden rooster cranes his head to manifest or be used to strike-

                              Originally posted by Maestro
                              in shaolin, they spend much of their time(as in the past) training speed, power, stamina etc are these the results you are talking about? if so, your right, speed and power can be achieved independent of the form or technique, but there arent thousands of shaolin forms and techniques for nothing, to me the shell isnt shit, its the gold. in the past learning forms and techniques were the last thing to be emphasised, not because they were the least important, but because they were the most advanced.
                              top is the bottom, and the bottom is the top. speed, power, stamina, flexibility- these are all part of the package which Shaolin training should develop. Even today basics take up most of the training sessions, forms come at the end of the training session...bottom line is you want a powerful punch you have to develop it- thousands of punches must be thrown a day, you have to understand the mechanics of the 6 harmonies...you have to train. That's sort of what I mean, don't rely on the form of a rooster block unless it delivers these attributes it's worthless and is just a weak attempt at approximating something else.

                              Each aids and abets the other, I just get confused when people need to see some kind of definable structure so they can put a label on it and say, oh look...he is using gong fu. To me, that is fluff, but deliver and understand your power and how to deliver it, that's gong fu more than the trappings.
                              "Arhat, I am your father..."
                              -the Dark Lord Cod

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                              • #30
                                The thing is people watching these fights need to see a representation of it. I was using an extreme to describe how people will see it. The point of the whole discussion was to get tcma or tma out there for people to see and learn to appreciate. They won't be able to do that if everything looks like kempo to them. From this, I discredited these techniques as invalid in the ring. And of course, speed and power can be built independently, as was stated earlier. These independent ways are much more appetizing to ring fighters who want to get in there and beat the shit out of other people. My overall point was that gong fu, if used in the ring, will be undistinguishable to people who need to be reached to expand and grow gong fu. If it is distinguishable, the fighter using the factors will get owned.

                                Nevertheless, I don't even know if gong fu would want to be represented by external only fighters. Now that I think of it, tcma as we know it could be bastardized to a larger extent by people who want to just get in there, take some roids, and kick some ass. It would become like j-j is now.

                                And as good as Shaolin monks like SYM are, I doubt that they would consistantly demolish some of these UFC guys in a ring bout. Despite the obvious prowess of SYM, it is my belief that the advantage is on the UFC'ers.

                                Therefore, Let me know if I let anything else.

                                Therefore therefore therefore therefore Therefore thefeofoehrfoherhfe
                                Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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