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Thread: Religious and social life

  1. #11

    Question

    And if and when you get hit by that bus, and the last ounces of life drain from your body...what then???? I'd hate to have not asked enough questions and found enough answers to allow me to see my last seconds out peacefully!!! In fact, I'd also hate to look inside myself in those moments ( as you do when your eyes roll back into head ) and see the beliefs that held me together weren't at all what I'd practicing making it not the beliefs I held at all but a lie I perpetrated for how ever long that was.

    Can we do this buddhist sangha and dharma chat again??
    In the past year I've come exrtemely full -circle in my beliefs and have met some extremely interesting interperations of the way people see and live their prajna insights and interperate the doctrine.

    No offence to anyone here, but take disciples for example. How do you "half believe " or practice something ??? And where are the scriptures for lay practioners??? How much comprimise is okay?? It makes me sad to see dishonesty to self in such a beautiful system of belief, that I think I'm possibly either redefing my interperation of a lay buddhist or perhaps just my beliefs in all.
    For example, I came across this disciple and was in close contact for a reasonable amount of time and spoke about many many things. I thought this guy was great and I sincerely love to see a person live by their beliefs and even more when I share it myself, but after a time, and a few key incidents, I saw some really non-buddhist things being said and done by this person. Is everyone comprimising when no-one's looking???? Is there a point to a part - time belief??? You do or don't right??? Really dissappointing to find that behaviour at such high commitment level......dissppointing and just straight out sad, more so and over and above loosing the friendship in any capacity. I want him to redeem himself and restore my faith.............. but unfortunately, I just don't think that's going to happen. Sometimes you just see something a person and your reality changes.

    Does anyone have a belief system they actually acknowledge and remain true to all the time??? Buddhism has alot of standards and many ways to interperate them and still lead a normal secular life........ but it's a choice. Just like you and your one or thousand beliefs of your own. Is this not the system for that guy do you think, or is he just running away from himself??? It's killing my motivation and I'd love to let it go ( being we practice detatchment as part of the belief that raised the question on "how exactly to do like the "committed" " ........ there's a paradox to meditate on!!) I'm sure this worth a good laugh, but I've vented and that's my soul.


    thx for the rant space

    Blooming Lotus
    Last edited by blooming tianshi lotus; 11-30-2004 at 10:58 AM.

  2. #12
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    I don't think anyone remains true to their beliefs 100% of the time. I don't mean that everyone is wishy-washy and strays from whatever their path might be half the time; I mean that even the Pope has, at some point in his life, told a lie, had an impure thought, beat up a hooker, whatever (Okay, I hope he never actually beat up a hooker.) No one can be perfect. There seem to be so many different ways to look at and practice Buddhism (or any other religion) that it would be hard to judge whether someone else is being true to their beliefs, becuase who else but that person knows exactly what their real beliefs are? (And they're not necessarily what they say they are; they might just pay lip service to ideas they don't actually agree with.) It's hard enough to figure out what's going on within yourself, let alone anyone else!

  3. #13
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    why bother coming up with some complicated system of ethics and then beating yourself up because you can't act in accordance with it all of the time?

    ethics don't fit into a system. to me, ethics have nothing at all to do with what you believe. ethics have to do with what you choose in a situation. they don't exist before or after you make a choice in that situation, it's just about the situation itself and what you're going to do about it.

    of course, you make those choices based on what you believe, but if i have a point (which is questionable), it's that you shouldn't go through life dreaming up theoretical ethical problems and guessing as to what your response to them would be. just live life and let your beliefs and ethics grow out of that, because in reality, they will anyway. and relax. life is short and all that jazz.

  4. #14
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    [QUOTE=zachsan]why bother coming up with some complicated system of ethics and then beating yourself up because you can't act in accordance with it all of the time? QUOTE]

    Because some people just love to suffer. And to overcomplicate things.

    If you're the kind of person who will spend twenty minutes discussing exactly how to split the bill after the meal in a restaurant, then boy oh boy are you gonna love Catholicism! (or Buddhism, etc....any major religion works in this situation.)

  5. #15
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    May 2003
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    I think about things like these practically all the time.
    Studying philosophy is very interesting. There are so many views and so much advice as to how to handle life that you just never would have thought of by yourself. Forexample Sartre, Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Holbach and many other existentialists. They all have different, sometimes very different, advice and angles. Most of them seem very reasonable yet very different.

    I think there are many seemingly heterogeneous ways to handle life that are all correct.

    About what you said, BTL... Sartre and Nietzsche both have very interesting views which is that you make your own ethics. God is dead. There is no set of rules for any specific situation that will guide you to ultimate serenity. Man is condemned to live in freedom. There is no greater power than the choices we make, the ethics we put forth for ourselves.
    In the beginning, before we are forced to take decisions, we have no essens, we are virtually non-existing, we have not yet begun. But as soon as we are confronted with a situation DEMANDING us to make a CHOICE, only then will we begin. There are plenty oppotunities to make a choise during our lives, but most fear the moment of choosing, and just keep on going with the tide... doing what others do.

    "You gave him an opportunity of showing greatness of character and he did not seize it. He will never forgive you for that." - Nietzsche

    So, there ARE NO ETHICS. What will you have to do then? MAKE THEM UP YOURSELF.
    As soon as you start living by your ethics, you will be God. With your actions putting forth your side of justice and correct conduct. Nothing is higher than a man that has begun.

    According to Kierkegaard, it is not about pointing out what is right what is not. It is simply about MAKING A CHOISE at all.. You have to keep in mind that whenever confronted with a situation demanding a decision, there mostly often 3 options, the one, the other, or abstaining. The last one is the only bad one.

    How can he put all the responsability onto the person in question, and be sure that he doesn't, out of revenge or hate, choose something that will cause a lot of destruction?
    He simply says that all fairly normal humans are basically good in nature, and that you will have bad feelings about choosing something that will give you pleasure at the expense of others.

    Of course, this all presupposes that the person in question is in touch with himself and not tangled up in some deep hate or scizophrenia stuff, and is by no means able to feel anything bad when brutally slaughtering 10+ humans.

    ... well, I hope I made some sense... i didn't study it for too long...
    Last edited by Asger; 11-30-2004 at 07:04 PM.

  6. #16
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    The only person/divine power that you cheat when doing something out of your ethics, is yourself.
    God cannot be cheated. He is non-existing.

  7. #17
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    all that philosophical stuff is fun until you realize that none of it is actually affecting anything you care about. but i suppose i'm grateful i went through that phase of my life. i would just be worried if that phase lasted a bit too long for one of my friends. i know one kid who has a fantastic philosophical mind, but has not worked in at least a year and rarely leaves his house.

  8. #18
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    Unless you intend to take a monk's vows, don't worry about this stuff. Enjoy life. Spread love and goodwill to those around and it'll be fine. Even when things aren't fine, being at peace with yourself makes them fine. Don't go starting a war between your instincts and your understanding of the sutras.
    Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

  9. #19
    When your instincts and your understanding of the sutras are much to muchness, I don't think it's myself who's going to war . ( As opposed to the disciple and his budds who back his dirty dealings for example and a consequence send me 4 mths worth of viruses wiping out all my accounts, deleting my contacts and erasing only 2 days ago 30+ hrs of assignments only days before they're due, or persist making trite and dispicable air raiding comments in support of his actions, making him , again according to the precepts he pledged to, somewhat responsible) . On that though, and as a result of even interacting with it, I have come to realise that I am extremely unpopular on both this and the board of the disciple I'm talking about, and besides being bummed at the inconvience and often amused by the BS ppl are passing off truth ( providing its black to my white) I largely don't care and it certainly won't stop me neither training, practicing gongfu, studying nor acheiveing anything else I'm in the process of doing. Who wants to be a part of that rubbish anyway. And how grand a thing is liberty after all!



    Blooming Lotus

  10. #20
    Well actually, now that I have received my first official death threat via the forums and russbo chat room having the honours, I've gotta say that some folks are just OTT! THis comment likely doesn't belong here, but just a warning that A. you are now breaking the law and B. if you get close enough to try I also have powers of arrest and legal powers to use deadly force with a whole range of weaponary in situations just like this. Either way, I don't like your chances. And btw : I have a habit of defending myself ( being a martial artist myself ) and funny this should come up in a place like this. Good luck in your endevours.

    Blooming Lotus

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