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  • #16
    doc,
    yeah, i remember that thing you had written about. i think the thing i'm talking about might be a different thing altogether. and, well, who knows what the jilin school is talking about, the website is confusing sometimes, mostly differences in the usage of language. mr che sometimes clears things up on email, but his english isnt the best, and i certainly dont trust my chinese enough to ask that way either. ehhh....
    but back to ranking and such. i remember reading about this probably 2 to 3 years ago, on raffi's wushu website. (btw, if you're into contemporary wushu, that's the place to be, nice website.) at first it was simply a means of getting a grading by your peers as to what level you should compete at. kind of like in america when you go to colligiate wushu tournaments, there's the division break down of beginner (1st year) intermediate (2nd year) advanced (3 years and up), except that, well, in china, there's probably tons of people who've been doing wushu since age six and are probably in their 20s. i think the top three levels or ranks or whatever you want to call them were designated as coaching and judging ranks. of course, the traditional gong fu guys wanted some recognition so they got their own ranking system, along with scholarly types. but i dont think it was in any way meant to be like the japanese system, where, if you have a 1st dan in a particular school, there's a very specific syllabus that you know and can perform...in the chinese system it was just there for recognition among peers.

    but.....this was a while back, i dont remember reading anything else about it since. but here's what ill do....i'll get on raffi's forum and ask, and maybe get a reply, which i will post here. okay? okay.
    -Jesse Pasleytm
    "How do I know? Because my sensei told me!"

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    • #17
      Thanks Jesse. But just for clarification sake, in Shaolin, with respect to the monks and training there, as far as I know, there are no "degree" levels of mastery. However, I can see how some of the schools, with the emergence of modern wushu and competition being ever increasingly important, might start using such a system. I'll have to look into it during my next trip.
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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      • #18
        Anyway, Mr. Che at the Academy gave me a reply in response to my question which basically said I didn't think their were such degrees in shaolin Kung Fu:

        Dear Justin

        That's wrong.There are total Nineth degree of Chinese gong fu which from 1st to ninth.Everybody knew that whole world gong fu come from China from shao lin.

        Best regards

        Che wen long
        You can see his english isn't perfect. Is there 9 of anything in Shaolin kung fu?

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        • #19
          Well, let's backtrack a bit.

          There are nine of "something" in gong fu. Shi Xing Wei and I talked about this a while back when we were working on the planning stages for the school in Las Vegas. We talked about these nine levels of accomplishment, testing, advancement, and things like that. They were never described as "degrees" like you talk about in karate, nor are they associated with belts or things like that. It kind of goes like this:

          There are three main levels of advancement. Each level has three levels, thus, the whole concept of nine levels. The problem is, in China, there really aren't names associated with these levels, we were basically going to call them 1a, 1b, 1c, 2a, etc. Some schools actually assign animal names to each level, which is what you'll see in Shi Yanzi's school in London. The description for what each level entails is variable, and is not something that I was able to get out of Shi Xing Wei. We just didn't get to that point in great detail, he was uncertain about what exactly the delineating circumstances of each level were, and there was too many other things to get taken care of.

          If you talk to Decheng, or some of the older monks, the answer that you get about "levels" is the following. There are four levels: student, disciple, master, grandmaster. Decheng didn't get into this three levels of three stuff. Which, is interesting, because XingWei is a much younger monk. I've already discussed the differences between the two with respect to traditional and contemporary gong fu training; this whole concept of "levels" is interesting in that it just might be a relatively new concept in Shaolin, brought on by the whole traditional to contemporary change that has occurred over the years.
          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

          (more comments in my User Profile)
          russbo.com


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          • #20
            Northern Shaowhat?

            Let's just say that this school has little if any Shaolin affiliation. If you want to learn Shaolin kungfu, why not go to Shaolin?? Btw, if you want an idea of what Jilin is like in the winter, just think Siberia. The teachers are too young, and don't know how to teach. If you want to know more, just ask.

            Shaolinsmonk

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            • #21
              Siberia. Yes.

              I've been to Harbin in the winter, which is a little north of this school. Incredible ice sculptures. If you want to get an idea of how ****ing cold it was, go to the Harbin section of the site and look at the pictures (photo library also).

              I think you'll get the idea.

              30 below Centigrade is not good for camera batteries. Or big bald guys.

              lol
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

              (more comments in my User Profile)
              russbo.com


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              • #22
                Siberia isn't so bad. I was there last winter ;-)

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                • #23
                  Food for thought... The Northern Shaolin Academy only teaches laowai (foreigners). If you don't know what that means, then you haven't trained in China, and should definitely not take a chance training at a place you might not like, with no other schools to choose from. Shaolin, on the other hand, has 80 kungfu schools, with every different possible training you could possibly desire. If you want Shaolin, go to the source.

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                  • #24
                    I'd imagine you have more negotiating tools in Dengfeng as well...
                    practice wu de

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                    • #25
                      hi every body

                      hi ,
                      if you want go to shaolin to study Shaolin Kungfu , please ask me , and please go to right way !!!! i can tell you about here every information you want :-) (because i stay on the Shaolin Temple ),
                      right now here have alot change, and all school move to Dengfeng City (Dengfeng City is near Shaolin Temple ,)

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                      • #26
                        God, I get emails on almost a daily basis about this school now. I'm truly amazed at how many people want to go to this place, mostly because they've got a website that's in English, and a good web site address.

                        It's truly getting out of hand here.
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


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                        • #27
                          Ni hao to you all. I have spent my Sunday here just cruising through all the posts. Before I came to China 2 years ago I came across your web site and have from time to time followed your expolits through the wilds of Vegas and your travels and experiences here in China at Shaolin Si. I spent 6 months training in Northern China because I did see their web site and thought it would be a great place to train. For some people it is a great place to go but it is not a place for the experienced martial artist to train. ALthough they have an affiliation with Shaolin Si through Shi De Qian it is a very small affiliation. Che Wen Long was a disciple of Shi De Qian. He trained with him for 4 years. That is as far as it goes. Che Wen Longs biggest asset was a monk on his web site named Shi Yong Peng which was not his real Shaolin Name. It was given to him by Che Wen Long so as not to look bigger in the Shaolin Lineage than Che Wen Long. His real Shaolin name is Shi Xing Ming and was a disciple of and is the nephew of Shi De Qian. Shi Xing Ming is also known as Master Wang Xin Peng. Master Wang has not been at the Northern Shaolin Martial Arts academy now for 1 and a half years. He left to come back home to Shaolin Si and Deng Feng to be with his family where he now teaches foreignors that want to experience the culture and training of Shaolin Temple. He has many students from all over the world and has a web site that you can view at www.shaolintemplekungfu.uk.com Master Wang will be coming to the states sometime this summer to teach in Bakersfield California and then move on to the east coast for a while to teach out there.

                          The current masters at the Northern China academy are all students of Shi De Qian. They trained at his academy in Deng Feng. They are not monks from the Shaolin Temple although I can say that their training was excellent at Shi De Qians school. His academy is China Shaolin Temple International WuShu Institute and is located on Shaolin Street. Shi De Qian has written many books on Shaolin Gongfu and is currently working on additional book that should be published soon. In fact a few weeks ago when I was at the academy he was taking pictures of Shao Hong quan stance by stance to be incorporated into the newest book. I have lived now here in Deng Feng for 1 and a half years and have seen much of the changes that you speak about and have learned many of the inside things that aren't privy to the rest of the world.

                          If you have questions regarding training in Deng Feng with Master Wang please email me. A Mi Tou Fou

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                          • #28
                            Thank you.

                            I wasn't going to say some of that....
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


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                            • #29
                              Sometimes things need to be said...

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                              • #30
                                Thanks for the breakdown. It's nice to hear it from some one who was there.
                                practice wu de

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