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What attracts you to shaolin???

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  • #31
    Agreed.

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    • #32
      fanzi- your line of thinking is very similar to my own.

      i think one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard is eat when it is time to eat, and sleep when it is time to sleep.

      to me, buddha was a very smart guy, because I think he built his 'system' to ultimately collapse and point to that intuitive truth.
      "Arhat, I am your father..."
      -the Dark Lord Cod

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      • #33
        the thing of it is, people who say shaolin isnt for self defense dont understand that shaolin gung fu is advanced in itself, for example, its true and known in shaolin that it is easier to block a punch with basic technique , then it is to perform a more difficult move, but thats because in the past you needed more skill, back then your life was always at stake in a fight, espcially on the battlefield with weapons and such, the same was for hand 2 hand. therefore, if you only knew the basic blocks etc and didnt train the advanced techniques, and there counters and different fighting strategys and etc youd be at a disadvantage to someone else who did know them and trained them

        this also brings up the contrast between people then and people now, people then relied on there art for their life, no one else can say the same today, therefore how can you mortal say the things you say?

        anyhow, shaolin gung fu isnt just forms obviously and to say that shaolin training doesnt produce strong fighters, is ridiculous, and the techniques in the forms do work, because why else would they be there? forms are made of techniques and hei gung or chi kung movements etc etc but the techniques, the only reason they arent practice individually like in boxing or whatever is because they are easy to remember in a form, and they teach other things like fluidity, speed, agility bla bla

        anyhow, xing said basically the same i just wanted to post

        cheers
        "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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        • #34
          here's an interesting thought line that seems to always be on the cusp of developing more fully...but never seems to come to what seems to me to be the only obvious conclusion...

          looking back on the history of shaolin, why did they include weapons like the spear, staff, and sword? looking at this from the martial perspective...
          "Arhat, I am your father..."
          -the Dark Lord Cod

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          • #35
            I think what makes shaolin so special is the enormous focus on power coming from the inside. It is sort of a combination of Qi and Shen (spirit), the gracefulness of mind and willpower of spirit and a finger-tip sensation of your body and it's abilities.
            I must say, I really have to give much heed to my strenght in order not to hurt anyone seriously when having a friendly fight. I think, where I am in my shaolin training, I need to focus on that devastating power and swiftness which is best describes something like this
            "Even the mightiest fighters of history or gods of divine power are utterly and instantly oblitereted by the unrestrained wrath unleashed from the inner ocean of endless and unfathomable raw power. If I should meet the Devil himself or even Buddha himself in person, they too will be shattered and annihilated faster than the human eye can perceive."

            Then, I think, when you have this power and speed, you can go on to controlling it better, and direct it in exactly the direction you want with a subtle precision.

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            • #36
              You shouldn't need to crush someone who isn't as good as you. When I play with someone who isn't as good I stop them with speed and timing. I don't just power the hardest sidekick in the world into sombody.

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              • #37
                Arhat-- maybe your line of thinking is very similar to mine.

                Xing-Jian--sorry I haven't replied in a few days but here goes:

                "You are living with these things whether you think so or not" [That is how you perceive it. A christian might say I am following the ten commandments or a Muslim might say I'm following the Qaran].
                "If you are trying to live as a good person the 8 fold path is something you will follow" [bs, once it is written it is too narrow for free life application. I like the Taoist and Zen writings that are suggestive and not conditional in nature, but I don't believe in following any systems, since I believe they are the artificial construction of humans].

                "Whether you call it the 8 fold path or whether you have no name for this conduct. You are living it. Same with the Buddha and Sangha. It is all within you whether you call it by this name or not." [so why do YOU call it anything? Why, if it is so free and expansive and pure, do you feel the need to associate it with Buddhism? The essence of Buddhism, I believe, is in understanding yourself by yourself, not in the context of nirvana or Buddha or the dharma. Buddhist teaching is profound, as are the teachings of other religions from judeo-christian to hindu, or taoist, or the philosophies of Confucious, Socrates, Descartes, Marx, Martin Luther King, and scientists from Gallileo, to Einstein to the founders of quantum physics and string theory. There are many philosophies and ideas that contribute to a person's experience, but one shouldn't get attached to any if he wants to be free.]

                "The names themselves mean nothing. They are just sounds put together to make a word for something so others know what we are talking about. If you wish to never speak these words then you are simply doing without the words to express these things." [You just made my point that these words are not necessary to express what we may be talking about. Buddhism is now like a club, where everyone can speak in these code words and try to see life similarly, to stick together like a camp of believers. Is the goal of organized religion to keep the community together and to be a social thing? I think these codewords and secret handshakes (jk) are obstructive to individual experience. The names and religions are filters through which to see things. Take off the shades! I think religions have a lot to offer and I enjoy reading the works of Taoism and Buddhism the most. The writings that I enjoy are helpful in knocking off another layer of crap from my vision, not instructive, conditional, or intentionally or not, controlling.]

                "You are definitely not living without these things. So long as you are still trying to live a good life and all. Of course, people are still living without being awakened to what is inside them. They are not living with the same ideas as you or us." [Like I just said, Buddhism has a lot to offer. But it is nothing to take refuge in. You can't prove to me that there is a Buddha or Nirvana. It is up to me to live my life and experience things with my own intellect, intuition, and senses. You can call the things I talk about these names, but why?]

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                • #38
                  i think i like what you're saying, fanzi. arhat, i don't follow.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by arhat
                    here's an interesting thought line that seems to always be on the cusp of developing more fully...but never seems to come to what seems to me to be the only obvious conclusion...

                    looking back on the history of shaolin, why did they include weapons like the spear, staff, and sword? looking at this from the martial perspective...
                    I'm definitely no history expert, but I remember reading an article in the Shaolin issue of Kung Fu/Qi Gong Magazine that mentioned that a lot of ex-military types gathered at Shaolin. Perhaps their influence is why these weapons are included in Shaolin. I have no idea, but I thought it might be a possibility.

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                    • #40
                      Fanzi-

                      I said you are living the 8 fold path whether you call it that or not. But a Christian may think you are following the 10 comandments... The reason I said you are living the 8 fold path is because I thought you were Buddhist. Seems you are taking philosophy from Buddhism as well as Daoism in order to have your own. Which is fine. And I agree with you. Buddhism isn't something to take refuge in. Saying "taking refuge" in this and that is really taking refuge in yourself. Believing in yourself first of all. I personally don't make it a goal to reach nirvana. I just live my life the way I know best. The 8 fold path is a great start. They are not commandments. I believe in myself to be able to follow this path on my own choice. I believe that will lead to a much better life for me and others. Then perhaps someday I may reach nirvana without even trying because of my consistancy in following my path.

                      This outlook is the same as another person who I came across a post in ShaolinWolf. But they had an interesting question to start with. I wonder what your idea on it would be. Or anyone else.



                      A mi tuo Fo
                      -Xing Jian

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                      • #41
                        Thanks for reading my rant. I appreciate the discussion. I used to follow buddhism in the more traditional sense but have since left it. I don't have too many concrete opinions right now but many things on my mind. The points I raised are relevant to Buddhism although they relate to other religions as well. I don't mean to be offensive either because I know what you and Fa Hui were saying. I just wanted to share my thoughts on Buddhism. I'd have to agree with the person who said they weren't concerned with escaping the circle of life and death or reaching nirvana. I can see how the circle of life and death is a metaphor that is very real in the world of the living. As for afterlife and reincarnation I don't believe any of that. I can't deny it, but modern physics is mind blowing enough that it's hard to say for sure that people are reborn, or people go to a heaven or something. The unvierse is so vast, I find it hard to believe that our existence is significant in relation to all of creation. The afterlife is beyond our conciousness and reality. People have faith, I once had faith in an afterlife, but who knows? I understand that what makes us up is the matter that once made up things and beings in the past, yet I can't remember what my matter was once used for.

                        And that's what attracts me to Shaolin.
                        thanks

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                        • #42
                          I see. I also think it's odd to put so much faith into something that no one knows for sure. I believe in what is there for us to test out. Anything else, I just leave that for the future. Until the time comes for me to see or not see what happens, then I will not worry about what's going to happen. This whole idea of not striving for nirvana to end the circle of life and death is very good. Because if you don't strive for it like it is always on your mind you are much more likely to reach it just through consistancy. When it comes, it comes. It's the future. Don't hang on that. You will not know until the time comes. So I don't worry about all those things. But I do what I can now to make a good life for myself and the little world I effect.

                          Shao Lin and Chan Buddhism attracts me first of all because it's so practical. Hardly any wondering. Most beliefs are based on proven facts. Hard evidence. And that is what I like to feel. I don't wish to believe things no one can prove or know, or not know until after death. So partially I am attacted to it for that reason. Most other things like the idea of nirvana and ending a life cirlce and all... I don't concern myself with it. If I am consistant in my practice I know it will come to be, or not. But why worry about it? Same as Shao Lin martial arts. I don't concern myself with how well I think I should be doing or how well others are doing. I simply concern myself with what I am doing at this moment. That is the only way to improve. Do away with internal and external comparisons.

                          I love Shao Lin martial arts. And many philosophies of Chan can be directly applied to martial arts practice. Like what I just explained. That's another thing that attracts me to it so much.

                          A mi tuo Fo
                          -Xing Jian

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                          • #43
                            The most interesting thing is, is that I don't consider Buddhism to be a religion or philosophy. It's a Way to get There, wherever there may be.

                            True Buddhism is about it's practicality in our normal everyday lives. So in my daily life I live my practice, I don't call myself Buddhist. In fact when people ask me if I'm Buddhist, I answer no. Although in technique and way of practice, they are very much Buddhist, I don't look at them as being so.

                            When I am here on this Discussion Board, I talk like a Buddhist; however, in my ordinary life when I'm helping friends, I help them in a non-secular way. I don't speak about the 3 Jewels or the 8-fold Path. I don't even talk about religion or meditation.

                            I have had conversations with Christians and to them I have appeared to be Christian, I still give the understanding that I have (however small and insignificant it is) to them but with Christian lingo. They don't know the difference.

                            And I still have my personal beliefs, but I don't let them control me. I don't let ideas get in the way of me being at peace with things.

                            Being normal and being free are one and the same thing. I enjoy joking and laughing a lot, and just having a good time. I laugh a lot at the silly things we as human beings do, it helps to curb the insanity of modern living.
                            "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

                            "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

                            "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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                            • #44
                              This is showing the Dharma in your actions. Whether they see it as the Buddha Dharma or not. It is positively affecting their lives and yours. This is the best thing. It's less important to be able to explain Buddhism and all of its philosophies than it is to live it and show it through your actions.

                              Fa Hui, your actions show truth more than any explaination of the Dharma through words. Some see it as a Buddhist thing. Some see it as a Christian thing. I like this: "you say a green hat is ugly, another says it is pretty, I say it merely is". However they may see it, they have been affected positively. If they ask about Buddhism some may wish to share some words. You choose to "keep it on the down low" and show the Dharma through actions of heart. The only true way the Dharma can be passed.

                              A mi tuo Fo
                              -Xing Jian

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