What attracts you to shaolin???

[Guest]

Why does shaolin appeal to you??


Let me begin. Firstly, I love that in shaolin we have a concept of family, indicating support and I love also that before any of us have even met, we know each others heart or base intentions at a minimum.

Much like Rich, and no doubt many other ch'an budhhists, shaolin beliefs and its gongfu have seen me through ( and still are ) some extremely difficult roads.

Buddhism is one of the oldest belief systems in humanity and at times of self-doubt and lack of reason or motivation , I am comforted by the belief in its maturity and mine in its practice and attempts ( according to the eightfold path ) to pepertuate and continue its good works and teachings.


peace all

BL

[xing_jian108]

A mi tuo Fo

I agree with you. This is something we can not only practice but we can take refuge in this family and path set for us. The link between Chan and Shao Lin martial arts is amazing. It can't be explained. Only experienced. I hope everyone can have this experience or an experience quite like it.

Shao Lin martial arts give us a chance to practice Chan once again. While at the same time giving us a great system of self-defense and an amazing workout. Once you are exposed to Chan philosophy you get stuck on it and realize how simple it is and how much sense it makes out of every situation in your life. Anything you can think of, Shao Lin Chan gives you an answer. This is the greatest comfort and happiness for me. I take refuge in not only the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha as is the first step in Buddhism. But I also can feel the same comfort when practicing Shao Lin martial arts with or without my Shao Lin family. But near or far, you always have a family here. I always believe your home is where your heart is. So every follower of Shao Lin has a home and family there. Visiting other martial arts schools, I feel though they preach this family idea, I feel it is something they are missing.

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[fanzi]

Some questions.
Don't you think taking refuge in something is opposed to Chan? Once you conceptualize a thing or entity to take refuge in, doesn't that prevent you from truly opening your mind? Doesn't Shaolin or your perception of "Chan" act as a filter that actually obscures your life experience?
Wouldn't Chan include throwing out "Chan", throwing out Shaolin, and throwing out monks to clear the clutter from your sight. Does enlightenment involve following an order, or following a leader?

[xing_jian108]

Wow, you have a strange thought on this subject. In no way does that prevent you from opening your mind or block your path to enlightenment. Taking refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha doesn't mean following an order by any of them. I think you need www.dictionary.com We are taught of course not to take things and follow them because someone or something has said for us to do so. How can we read a few words and follow this as "truth"? We start with ourselves. We experience everything. Along the way in our path we have things we can take refuge in. The Buddha, ourselves and personal ability, the teachings, a Sangha to support us in our path. This is not preventing us. This is helping. Even if it's just being with them for a simple meditation. The experience of that can have a great effect on us. Many other things....

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[fanzi]

I know what you mean, I just don't agree. I think inside Damo's mind when he was looking at that wall there was no buddha, no dharma, and no sangha. That's why he encouraged meditation as a tool to unclutter the mind and see clearly, and to not depend on the writings or the traditional organized buddhist system.
The Buddha and the teachings are subject to interpretation and the sangha is made up of humans who are fickle and unstable. I say take refuge in your family and friends, try to be a good person.

[xing_jian108]

Taking refuge in the Buddha is also just taking refuge in the fact of your own human ability. As they say "you can do anything you put your mind to". You just have to trust yourself.

Trying to be a good person is also following the 8 fold path. This is part of the Dharma. Taking refuge in that is just the trust that it will lead you to nirvana. It all starts within. So, the main thing is trust yourself.

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[fanzi]

It does start within, so you could throw out the eight fold path too. The eightfold path is appealing because it reflects/is similar to the values that are innate within us. Trust yourself is good to live by, but besides that I trust only people who earn it, and take written things with a grain of salt.
I don't need to take refuge in "Buddha" in order to appreciate the extent of my human ability.

[Fa Hui]

I understand where you are going with this or at least where you are trying to go with this.

You would be surprised how important the Triple Gem is to any practice. Buddha is that unmoving nature within us that sees all and knows all, but is there untouched by things. Dharma is the expressions of the Buddha within, it's what you manifest in your daily life. Sangha is your mind and body and all the things that help you to experience the Buddha within and express the Dharma without. Sangha is every molecule in the universe, everything is helping everything else, nothing is adding and nothing is depleting.

And I expect arguments for this answer, it takes time to see things this way. We often have clear out the ideas and constant thoughts that exist within our conscious minds to actually see anything clearly.

I don't think that Damo would have ever intended that. If anything he would have told you to not get attached to the Sangha, or the Dharma, or the Buddha; because he would it ruin your practice. However, I do not think that you could do without the Triple Gem.

The Eightfold Path is something that you will follow in Buddhism whether you think you are or not.

[mortal]

I disagree about shaolin being good for "self defense".

Maybe after 5 years of very hard training. Most people quit before that long anyway.

[fanzi]

My point is that once you name something "Buddha", it is not Buddha at all. You require these words: buddha, dharma, and sangha to make sense of the world. I am saying that those words are actually an obstruction of the blind naked experience you can have when you let go of these essentially material things that you take refuge in.

"Buddha is that unmoving nature within us that sees all and knows all, but is there untouched by things [why does it have to be Buddha, or called anything?] . Dharma is the expressions of the Buddha within, it's what you manifest in your daily life [if you want to call it that, I thnik it is unnecessary]. Sangha is your mind and body and all the things that help you to experience the Buddha within and express the Dharma without. Sangha is every molecule in the universe, everything is helping everything else, nothing is adding and nothing is depleting. [the universe is bigger and more magnificent than to be called three names, throw the names in the garbage]"

"it takes time to see things this way" --- no thanks, I used to but I feel a lot better now.

I don't think Damo wanted anyone to be obsessed with what he would have wanted or what he thought. He was merely an example of how to fully experience and enjoy life.

"not get attached to the Sangha, or the Dharma, or the Buddha; because he would it ruin your practice. However, I do not think that you could do without the Triple Gem. "
--I agree, don't get attched to these things. But I can do just fine without the triple Gem. What are you trying to do anyway?

I may be living in accordance with the eightfold path, or not. I'd rather listen to my own inner nature than follow a list to keep me on point.

[Swordless]

As Zachsan has pointed out in previous threads, there's a big difference between 'self defense' and 'fighting.'

[mortal]

Shaolin teaches neither.

[zachsan]

after all, as mortal has pointed out in previous threads, he disagrees with just about everything i say.

[xing_jian108]

Fanzi, as Fa Hui was saying. You are living with these things whether you think so or not. If you are trying to live as a good person the 8 fold path is something you will follow. Whether you call it the 8 fold path or whether you have no name for this conduct. You are living it. Same with the Buddha and Sangha. It is all within you whether you call it by this name or not. The names themselves mean nothing. They are just sounds put together to make a word for something so others know what we are talking about. If you wish to never speak these words then you are simply doing without the words to express these things. You are definitely not living without these things. So long as you are still trying to live a good life and all. Of course, people are still living without being awakened to what is inside them. They are not living with the same ideas as you or us.

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[xing_jian108]

If out of Shao Lin practice you do not learn to defend yourself then this is a mistake in your training. Not a mistake in the system.

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian