Tong Bei Quan

[dogchow108]

I recently went down to Houston for some training. While i was down there i got to learn Tong Bei Quan (FINALLY, yay!).

anyway, i have a question:

Right after that first punch that you turn left to do at the begining, i was shown to do four sweeping-type motions (stepping back each time) before going to the posture that kind of looks like the posture at the end of all the forms (except in TBQ u do it in a kind of a cat stance).

i havent seen any video clips of this form being done like that. does anyone know what i am talking about? If so, do you do that too?

[LeiYunFat]

I have no idea what these mandarin fists mean in cantonese.

step back 3x with sweeping motion, cat stance, then fly away into the sunset while dramatic music plays behind you.

Atleast that's how I do it....

[doc]

I think you learned an altered, "more wushu" style, version. Which, makes sense, as they are younger monks in Houston. The traditional form is in the slideshow section of the forum.

[xing_jian108]

Yes, who did you learn it from? I hear Shi Xing Hao specializes in teaching Wu Shu anyway. I've seen many videos of him doing traditional forms all Wu Shu like.

I've seen many different versions of this form as well as others. Some are VERY different but still traditional and not so much Wu Shu. It really depends on the teacher. Some teachers even change the form a bit to make it their own little flavor. Which isn't wrong. The important part is to absorb the techniques and attributes gained from running a form.

You don't have to change and do as in the slideshow or as on any video from any school.

One thing to remember is; there are many pine trees in the forrest, no two are identical, but are they not still pine trees?

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[mortal]

Those moves are blocks.

[zachsan]

those moves might be blocks... but are they not truly pine trees?

[mortal]

OHHHHHHHHHHH! Point taken. I thought they were Palms.

[xing_jian108]

No, Zach...

All versions of the form are pine trees. Each move is just another branch. The branches on every pine tree are different. Some pine trees have a few extra branches than another pine tree. No two are identical, even though they are both pine trees.

Those blocks are truly branches. No matter who is doing the form at what school, it's still a pine tree, even if the branches look differently.

(no matter what the moves look like, it is still the same form. neither are any less the real form.. that's my point, smarty)

A mi tuo Fo
-Xing Jian

[zachsan]

Originally posted by xing_jian108
(no matter what the moves look like, it is still the same form. neither are any less the real form.. that's my point, smarty)

that may be your point, but is it not truly a pine tree?

[dogchow108]

Lol. Zachsan, you are my hero!

[xing_jian108]

No, I don't think it is...

[LeiYunFat]

Pine trees suck anyway. If you are ever foolish enough to plant one in your yard, shame on you.

The roots are just cuh-razy

[dogchow108]

Originally posted by doc
I think you learned an altered, "more wushu" style, version. Which, makes sense, as they are younger monks in Houston. The traditional form is in the slideshow section of the forum.

wow, Doc, i'm kind of surprised you're passing it off as wushu so easily. I dont think the form itself had a performance-type flair of any kind...i was just wondering if anyone has learned this form with this extra set of moves inside it. Ive usually seen TBQ the way it is prformed on the slideshow and in the videos section on this site, but i actually have found some cool stuff to do with these things that seem to really be deflections/throws.

to be honest, it is kind of reminiscent of the beginning of Chen Taiji, for anyone with that kind of experience.

Oh well. Anyway im thinking of going back sometime in the next month. I forget, who here trains with shi De Shan?

[doc]

Well, what else would you identify it as? These forms get altered quite commonly lately. Xinghong was famous for that, anything he could do to make the form move faster, he would do it, to the point of losing some quality stuff. Adding things to make them look less rigid is also common.

[goninjago3]

I have learned tongbei in two totally different ways. Deyang teaches the the form with the back arm blocks finishing in "cat stance". Lipeng teaches the move completely differently. Lipeng learned most of his traditional forms from Liu Boshan (the founder and headmaster of the Tagou School). So the Tagou manual shows that move as done in liu Boshan's lineage. Neither way is more or less wushu influenced. The essentil differences between wushu and traditional are large but also simple. It has to do with how you release power. There is power in wushu moves but the mechanics in traditional moves are designed to realease power in a very compact and suprising way. Wushu is awesome and I think very important to the development of traditional shaolin because it training the whole body to its limit. I don't you should train in wushu for more than 5 years because I have been taught that the training puts too much stress on the body if practiced for many years. I think it is good to have a nice balance of the too. Xing Hao understands traditional shaolin mechanics very well, crazy well! some of his forms are wushu forms and some of his forms are straight up traditional. Lipeng teaches the same way. They want you as students to understand the difference. But don't expect to spar too often. That's a whole other issue.