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  • confused about a style

    Hey, im wondering if this place I was thinking of going to sounds legit to any of you guys, I ask them what style of kung-fu they teach and they say that sifu lee teaches no one style, but northern and southern. Have any of you herd of this type of teaching before?

    Thanks

    Vint.

  • #2
    Well, we teach "northern and southern", LOL. Because Shaolin is primarily northern style, that's what most of the monks know, to one degree or another. But, because some of the monks, Shi Xing Wei for example, did some training down south, he knows some southern stuff, like Nan Chuan. Neat form by the way.

    What I find more interesting is how you refer to "Sifu Lee". Southern Cantonese for "master" is "sifu"; northern pronounciation would be "shifu". Lee, more than likely, is from down south, as many of these Chinese masters are. Just like the Chinese restaurants. There's a predominance of southern Chinese who have emigrated here over the past thirty years, because of the political situation in China back then.

    And, BTW, shifu doesn't just mean "master". You can use it for cab drivers as well. Or any worker type that you want to refer to.

    Whether it's legit or not depends upon how you like the teacher and the school, and what kind of benefits you're going to get from it. Not whether it's "legit".
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #3
      Originally posted by doc
      Whether it's legit or not depends upon how you like the teacher and the school, and what kind of benefits you're going to get from it. Not whether it's "legit".

      Well put.
      I totally agree with that.

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      • #4
        Be careful from teacher who give you that "we teach Northern and Southern" line. Personally, my last martial arts experience with such a person turned out to be my worst by far.

        Comment


        • #5
          After about a week with his guy, im enjoying it and it seems to be a worth while investment.
          the way i am being taught is that the teacher will teach me it and i will do it, then the other more advandced students will give me pointers and critque what i am doing untill i have it perfect, then the teacher will teach me the next step, etc.

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          • #6
            Well thats already more than my last school, where you learned entirely from "advanced" students (sometimes i really hate that term) who learned it from the teacher and taught it differently from each other. and of course you'd have to do push-ups for doing it wrong every time someone else was watching you- we had people with awesome potential doing a few hundred push-ups per training day for disciplinary reasons that were wrong and thus made them leave. kung fu, altogether that is, because the teacher was a cock. in the end, though, they were better off as the guy turned out to be a fraud.

            Just by chance, was the first thing they showed you animal forms?

            The problem with southern shaolin is that it is a ganeralization. while you can apply this to northern shaolin, however, there is actually a system who's name literally translates to "northern shaolin". It is a northern style which immigrated south and has thus been widely taught with Cantonese terminology (which has led to some confusion). Also, the shaolin Temple system is considered Northern.

            Either way, to the best of my knowlege there is no such single system in particular called southern shaolin. My last teacher claimed to teach this system- directly, according to him, from the "southern shaolin temple"---- in HENAN (whoa! anyone got a map handy???). He, by the way, swore by this, even when one of his students (who i believe was in on the con) slipped up one time in an AIM convo and accidentally told me something that involuntarily made sense- that our Southern Shaolin had at least come from Fujian. i went and asked the teacher about it and he said "No, it's from Henan, thats the southern Shaolin temple".

            Hey, what can i say, you dont question your sifu right?

            Well, it turned out he was lying about more- the icing got really thick when it turned out that a picture his teacher (supposedly living in Houston) had sent me by e-mail was actually a picture of a school in Munich, Germany. Dont ask me how we (several suspicious students) came accross this picture, but we did.

            A few more funny things:

            He taught Choy Lay Fut, Wing Chun, ShanDong black tiger (has anyone ever even heard of this system?), AND (get this...) not one but TWO seperate lineages of Southern shaolin as actual systems.
            He taught Northern Shaolin, Wushu, and SOMEHOW knew 2 types of ninjitsu...and judo...and kenpo...god, am i missing anything? I guess there is a CLEP system in martial arts.

            Sound odd? Well, i was THAT brainwashed- so let me give you some advice as someone who has experienced the misfortune of being brainwashed by someone for over a year and a half while devoting your entire life to that person (OH! Wen style Tai Chi..that was another one!)...

            If you:

            -Hear the name Shaolin Abbot/Master Kymnaga Yamashìta
            -lose count of the systems your teacher has MASTERED
            -cant find anyone who knows at least OF his master
            -dont get straight answers regarding lineage, history, and other things which you make clear to your teacher are important to you (Oh, White Lotus Boxing, thats another one)
            -have people like "Jackie chan", "Jet Li", "Pan Qing Fu", and other famous people show up regularly in AIM chatrooms
            -Anything else which makes NO SENSE TO YOU but that you cant comment on
            -are in the situation where you cant comment in the first place, whether by spoken or unspoken rule
            -realize at some point that yuor teacher seems orientally wise only because he is SUCH a brave poser

            (man, this is getting embarassing)

            RUN, and never look back. and to be completely honest, i mean that in the most literal sense possible as you may actually be in danger when a liar of that magnitude is on to the fact that you have realized whats going on.

            There is a limit to what your teacher should be able to impose upon you, and it takes no time at all to get to the point where you dont even realize the line has been passed.

            - and yes, there IS SUCH THING AS LEGIT. And it dosent always depend on your opinion, because if you are being lied to your face about something, that destroys credibility and thus lessens legitimacy. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of a responsible use of this word.

            What is legit? If your master tells you he's teaching something that dosent really exist, if he gives you a lineage made up of lies, if he fabricated the material, if he fabricated the philosophy, and is a generally compulsive liar, that simply leaves NO ROOM for legitimacy. you would have to be kidding yourself utterly that it is legitimate.

            if you are looking for something made up, thats fine. and i'm being completely honest. If my former teacher had been honest and told me "hey, i made this **** up but im a good fighter, right?" i would respect him more, despite my doubts that his skills were what he said they were, because honesty and thus consistency are the gateways to legitimacy. At the time when i found his school, i would have been willing to learn from a freelance martial artist as i was in my "fighter" stage then and just...wanted to "get from A to B", so to speak.

            But what can i tell you, if i order a hamburger and get a taco i dont want...i'm guilty of idiocy when i convince myself its legit.

            But hey this is not meant to discourage you....its really just meant to warn you. If this guy even starts to strike you as weird- dont waste your time. I live 8 hours away from the closest teacher that teaches the shaolin i want to learn. I've barely ever managed to meet him, but its better than being pointed permanently in the worng direction. Hopefully, for you, you have a good teacher

            All things considered, my message to you is this:

            -I hope you found a real, legit teacher

            but

            -Dont rule out the possibility that it still might be a while before you find a real one, and you should at least look more into this southern shaolin thing.

            DC

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            • #7
              I'm going to turn this whole concept of "legit" ass over end here, soon.

              In the Video Library. Next week.

              So much for Shaolin....
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

              (more comments in my User Profile)
              russbo.com


              Comment


              • #8
                this wouldnt have anythign to do with shaolin TKD would it?


                i can only imagine...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by doc
                  I'm going to turn this whole concept of "legit" ass over end here, soon.

                  In the Video Library. Next week.

                  So much for Shaolin....
                  who said doc doesn't have a flair for the dramatic?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    2 legit too quit...

                    sorry someone had to do it...





                    Legit. Am I legit if my teacher has many teachers of many styles? Geez, he knows some Bagua, Chen style, Xing Yi, Pao Chuan, yadayadayada. He teaches northern shaolin long fist and yang style taiji. But I bet a lot of people would be hard pressed to see things to really give him up that he doesn't know those other styles, just some forms and the flavors.
                    practice wu de

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                    • #11
                      Hey, that's totally fine...i practice Yang 24 form, i know the first straightline and 3 palm changes of Gao Bagua, Hebei XingYi 5 elements and 3 of the animals, i've delved into Chen Small Frame, and i also know some basic shaolin forms...but i dont claim to be a master in all of them, as most of what i do is background for one martial art which i have chosen to emphasize on. I feel that is legitimate practice...

                      But im not opening a belt-factory claiming to be some kind of Martial arts encyclopedia the contents of which i have all mastered. That, and the systems i practice actually have some sort of credibility and are pretty much universally agreed amongst martial artists to exist in the first place.

                      this really goes back to hamburger/taco thing. Legitimacy does not just mean lineage. It does not mean traditionality. Hell, it doesn't even mean mastery- it means you are being told the truth and no amount of lingual acrobatics comes close to honesty whether its hamburgers or matial arts.

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                      • #12
                        Very true. To the guy who originally asked.. good luck, have fun, and try to learn a lot. Stick around, post if you have any more questions. Legit is hard too because what you may be learning is not all there, but filler, but still, for most, that is enough material either way.
                        practice wu de

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                        • #13
                          The main problem i have with this place is that i cant put a name to what im learning, like he tells me it is northern and southern, but he didnt tell what style im learning, i guess ill ask him.
                          Also this teacher knows alot, but is it possible that he is teaching one or more kung-fu styles merged into one? is it still considered as a traditional martial art, or does it lose that once you have more then one style into one.

                          Vint.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Unfortunatley due to all the "watered down Sifu's" in general. You need to learn how to identify good kungfu. So you are learning in reverse. You are learning what isn't good. Almost as valuable as learning what is. Eventually you collect enough peices of the puzzle to see the big picture.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Vintage
                              The main problem i have with this place is that i cant put a name to what im learning, like he tells me it is northern and southern, but he didnt tell what style im learning, i guess ill ask him.
                              Also this teacher knows alot, but is it possible that he is teaching one or more kung-fu styles merged into one? is it still considered as a traditional martial art, or does it lose that once you have more then one style into one.

                              Vint.
                              I was afraid of this. Look, man, you HAVE to make sure you know exactly what you are learning. When you start any martial art, it is given there will be some vagueness as to what exactly you are doing, but when you dont know the style's name theres a problem.

                              southern- which southern system? what's in it?

                              Northern- same thing, which one?

                              As far as putting a lot of systems together- well, i would think its possible to do. after all, martial arts were not handed down to us by gods- people made them up. It wont be a traditional system if so, but in a sense you can see it as a traditional thing to do, because traditionally speaking martial arts evolve. But, this guy should be telling you whether that is what he is doing or not.

                              Out of curiosity, is the majority of your form material animal forms? I'm convinced my teacher fabricated his martial art but you never know who else might be in on it...

                              Anyway, asj your teacher clear and direct questions. they shouldnt be intimidating or threatening but you should make it clear what you want to know, and make it clear you have the right to know it. If you ever get kicket out of or demoted in a MA school for asking what the hell you are studying, you are probably better off.
                              Last edited by dogchow108; 12-07-2004, 10:13 PM.

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