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  • Shaolin Temple UK Training

    Hi there, I'm new to the forums here, and new to Shaolin gungfu... soon to tart training with the Wahnam Institute, and already training in Wing Chun at the Tse Qigong centre, and I have some 11 years experience training in karate (which to be honest, I've always found a little underwhelming, despite having an excellent and inspiring sensei).
    Anyway I plan to visit the UK Shaolin temple in Tufnell Park one day this week, and I was wondering if anyone who trains there could give me an account of what it's like for a beginner, and if anyone has any idea what training is like at higher levels... ie. things like how long is a student expected to stay in the preparation phases before progressing to more concentrated gungfu training, are youtaught combat application of patterns and forms etc, what is the san shou style like, what is the standard of the gungfu practiced, how traditional are the forms, how many classes per week are you expected to attend, etc. etc. and anything else I should know...

    Any help on these would be great, since I'd like to have some idea of what to expect before showing up
    "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

  • #2
    I started as a beginner almost three years ago, well before the actual temple opened in Tufnell park, so I'll leave it to someone else to answer about what it's like now as a beginner at the temple.

    I am now at Oxen level so I'll answer the rest of your question.
    "are youtaught combat application of patterns and forms etc";
    We are taught the form main form from Foundation level and expected to practice in our own time, we do not do it very much in Rooster/Oxen but when we do we are expected to know what we've already been taught and pick up any new bits quickly. Shifu tends to go over applications more when we parctice San Shou, where he shows us a move and then he'll relate it to the form if applicable. It is also useful to work out a lot of the applictions yourself, as this will help you as a martial artist.

    "what is the san shou style like";
    Basically it's like boxing/kickboxing and the like but your are also alowed to use throwing techniques. There are lots of website on the subject. I think it was created as a way for kung fu practitioners to fight in full contact competition. It's a great way to apply the techniques you learn.

    "what is the standard of the gungfu practiced";
    High!! Since I started any kung fu it is the highest standard I've seen. You are always taught my Monks/disciples not students as is the case in some schools. You are only taught relatively few techniques and repeat them over and over to get good before slighly more techniques are taught and so on, rather than learning thousands of techniques but never actually getting the chance to get good at any.


    "how traditional are the forms";
    The main form you'll learn is Xiao Hong Chaun (spelling??) which from what I've read is regarded as the mother of all forms, so I think that makes it fairly traditional.


    "how many classes per week are you expected to attend";
    Basically as many as you can. I go twice a week to two classes a time, this is mainly due to the distance I live away from the temple and other commitments. I used to go more and I will again soon. I think going at least twice a week is the norm.


    "anything else I should know... ";
    If you can, try to go to the internal classes as they're great and they'll help your kung fu. Also try to go to the workshops as they are great for improving technique, due there being more time to show and discuss how things should be done properly.

    Hope this helps, I'm sure Lipster will have more to add too. If there's anything else you want to know just ask and I'll try to help.

    Ross

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    • #3
      wow buddy - who do you train with? john, chi man or peter? i train in manchester pm me offline thats cool to meet someone else form the Centre

      dave
      simple and natural is my method,
      true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah, it's great at the centre... only had a couple lessons so far but I'm really enjoying it.

        The problem is going to be with balancing out my training... I really want to carry on with the wing chun but I don't think I can afford to go to all three schools each week... so I think I'm going to have to take a few lessons at both the Shaolin places and see which suits me better. Wahnam training is pretty expensive (£100 a month) but if I took, say, four hours' training a week at the temple, that's almost as expensive anyway... so I'll have to see which I prefer... from what I understand, Wahnam students get more results, gungfu-wise, over a shorter period, but temple students have more emphasis on physical fitness training... which I could also do with OR... I could do the wahnam classes, AND the temple classes, but only gungfu / external training (since they teach qigong at wahnam as part of the course)... but then I couldn't afford to keep up the wing chun.... AAAAARRGH!!!

        if anybody has any opinions to help me decide, it could be a great help!
        "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

        Comment


        • #5
          sure..

          yea sure ill help ya..

          yknow wahnam? well you think you do! i probably know more about that place and its "sifus" then anyone else here combined and i can tell you...its probably not what your looking for

          i recccomend you stay at tse centre or whatever its called ..im not so sure about the shaolin temple(s) yet myself..so i cant exactly say anything about em so i wont say anything about shaolin uk....

          just becareful..you go to wahnam..alright go..but becareful what you get yourself into
          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

          Comment


          • #6
            Umm okay would anybody mind clueing me in on something... I'm new around here so I hope I'm not touching on some kind of sensitive, controversial issue or anything but it seems to me there's a sort of generally bad vibe around here about wahnam... why is this exactly? Maestro makes them sound like some kind of shaolin mafiosa or something.

            I haven't been there to take a lesson yet but they seem pretty okay... I met Dan, the sifu at the Londond club, briefly and exchanged a few emails, he seems nice enough, and I've read some good accounts (NOT from the wahnam website) from people who train there.... so can someone be a little more specific about things please? I know that's not to be expected when you're asking quesitons about shaolin but I'm just trying to get a straight, reasonably unbiased opinion outof somebody.

            Anyway I'm gonna visit the temple tomorrow and hopefully speak with Shi Yanzi or one of the oher monks and maybe do a training session. I'll report back when I've done it.
            "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

            Comment


            • #7
              well..

              well..just go there anyway..the more we talk about it the more your going to want real answers anyway..

              if you like it you like it..if you dont you dont..its as simple as that..you have to form your own oppinions on this subject..

              i just said be careful..

              if you REALLY want to know what im talking about go to the forum archive and read up on the wkk sections...they are so biased its not even funny lol

              its like hitlers reign in there all over again..if your not with the "program" you are sure as hell against it..or your just a water buffalo...lol
              "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

              Comment


              • #8
                ... Ah.

                hehehe I read a few old threads about wkk and wahnam... and I *THINK* I kinda see why maestro is a little sore about them, lol

                Yeah, I've been to the wahnam website and read about wkk's opinions and preaching on various things... but despite the guy's rather intolerant and narrow-minded views about anything that isn't his, it still seems to me that his arts and his training are of a high standard, and thisis waht really counts... so I don't see why it should be difficult to train there without necessarily taking on all the dogma and propaganda that comes with it. If I find that they consider that to be a major problem, then they're obviously not my kind of people, but I think I'll give it a try anyway.

                Besides, let's say I was training at the temple- since I'm taoist, and not buddhist, might they be more hesitant to accept me into higher levels of training, assuming of course, I'd eventually get there? Quite possibly so. Everyone has standards of what level of dedication they expect from their students.

                Anyway, I'm sure nobody wants to revisit the subject now, so I'll shut up
                "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

                Comment


                • #9
                  just try training and see what happens.

                  dave
                  simple and natural is my method,
                  true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi,

                    Firstly, if you want to speak to Shi Yanzi I think you’d probably have to do it before 7.00pm or after 10, since we're missing a couple of Shifus and he's pretty tight for training. And he’s the only one who speaks passable English at the moment [Yan Lei is away], so don’t be confused if you get a blank look from one of the other monks if you talk to them – you gotta mime . Secondly, I think he always encourages a lesson to be taken before anything else. That's why no-one is allowed to watch a lesson, only participate - why watch when you can train.

                    Well, I'm not going to go too deeply into it; there are a couple of threads in the archive about what is taught there. All I'll say is that if it's Sanshou you want to excel at, then this is the place. All the monks around the world are among the best teachers out there, they all have their specialties, Yanzi's is Sanshou. I think it's fair to say you won't come across someone so suited for teaching such a high level of Sanshou for a very long time. Coupled with Yan Lei, the level of training is very tough and very high.


                    You say that you've got 11 years of experience, so you must be pretty fit in which case you shouldn't have to stay in Prep for too long. The average is about three times a week I think. Alot of the training is sparring related. Shifu is extremely concerned with combat application, he doesn't believe in learning GF without combat application, so no worries there. As Ross says, we only learn one form at the moment - Shao Hong Chuan - one of the oldest traditional forms I gather, and it's packed with applications. First part is taught in Foundation, the rest throughout Rooster and Oxen.

                    And as for not being accepted to more advanced levels for not being Buddhist, I wouldn't worry about that, Yanzi's more concerned with your dedication than your beliefs.

                    As for WKK, I've had my say about him but to put it in succinct terms, all of his actions do not display the characteristics and attitude of a Buddhist master - which for me is an important consideration in respect to my MA - only that of a businessman. His prices, his speed to discredit anything that doesn't directly or indirectly assist his career, and his exceedingly 'cosmic' explanations for the most mundane things don't really click with me. Considering this, his gong fu doesn't even come into the equation. Although I don't think I need to wonder about that after seeing that vid. I honestly don't mean to sound malicious; perhaps I'm no better than him for writing this - I honestly couldn't give a fig anymore about how those people spend their lives, I just think people - potential suckers - should know. If you're not interested in the Ch'an and philosophy aspects of gong fu and you like movie fighting, then try it out by all means. Watch out, keep an open mind and let us know what it was like, it's about time we had an unattached view of all this.

                    Maybe I'll see you in class...

                    Water buffaloes rule....


                    Peace


                    P.S. Did you check out the site? It might help you with some info:

                    Become the best version of yourself! Shaolin temple UK is the official home for Shaolin Kung Fu and Qi Gong in the UK.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      lol

                      lol

                      yea that vid..geez what amazing gong fu that was hahaha

                      and about the taoist stuff..i wouldnt worry about that anyway..taoist and chan buddhists have been studying etc with each other since chans begining..and since shaolin is strictly chan i dont think you should have any problems

                      ~~~water buffaloes rule~~~


                      hehehe
                      "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK thanks guys, I've decided to go train at wahnam on saturday and visit the temple for training on sunday. I hope to report back after that with an impartial, unbiased account of both... after all, I'm only trying to find out what works best for me.

                        I only asked about the taoism thing because I know some people who've visited the shaolin temple in henan and apparently trying to talk to a monk about taoism is like trying to get blood from a stone (this guy speaks fluent chinese, too), and having read up quite a bit about yanzi, I gather he's pretty serious about his buddhism.

                        For the record, in case anyone has any doubts about my seriousness, I think I should make it clear that for me, martial arts is nothing less than an integral part of my development and spiritual cultivation as a living being. As far as I am concerned, it is the only means we have to unify and balance out our yin and yang, thus becoming spiritually one with our own personal tao.

                        I started training in martial arts 11 years ago, aged 6, and have been sparring since day one. I believe the most complete way of reaching the zenith of one's abilities is to add to the standard ma training process (drills/forms/internal strength etc) with the process of testing oneself against others- as Bruce Lee (more inspirational to me as a philosopher than a martial artist) said, "every strike is directed not towards one's opponent, but towards oneself- punches and kicks are tools to kill the ego". Though obviously, fighting is not the only way in which martial arts cultivate the individual- it is only one of many factors- its importance means that a martial art with no applications is simply not a "martial" art, but an art in the same way that gymnastics could be considered an art. What I mean to say is, if one is to train in, for example, Shaolin gungfu, one must come out of it with the ability to fight in that style- or else you have at least partially wasted your time.

                        "movie fighting" simply doesn't come into it.

                        Anyway, I mean all this not to impose my own attitudes on you guys in a "you should be like this" sort of way, but to express my own ideas about what I'm looking for, and the standards I'll be going by in trying out these two schools.
                        "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          dude just train and dont worry too much about "spiritual cultivation" it takes care f itself if you have a good teacher.

                          dave
                          simple and natural is my method,
                          true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            spiritual cultivation takes care of itself eh? then I suppose nobosy need ever have written any philosophical theses, formed theories about the nature of existence, DesCartes shoulda kept his mouth shut when thinking of saying "cogito, ergo sum" and all that? The tao te ching is a pointless document? Gautama need never have left the palace?

                            hehehehe j/k mate lol just messin' with ya. It's all about your own approach I guess
                            "Be Cool" - Lao Tzu

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              i mean in relation to martial arts.

                              dave
                              simple and natural is my method,
                              true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

                              Comment

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