Strength Training

[mortal]

The only qualifications you need to be good at kungfu are hard training. That is it.
If you train hard you will be good. All this overanalytical jargon from fitness experts is a bunch of crap. So is weightlifting.

I love the way everyone thinks they are so learned about fitness. Than they do kungfu and they suck. KInd of like the chi gung people. Highly enlightened experts feeling the chi but suck at kungfu.

Everyone needs to train more, think and plan less. Just train all the answers and skills are there. But their not in a weight room or on the internet. There is nothing I read online that helped my training one iota.

As Yanming would say "It's very simple just train hard".

[zachsan]

bullshit.

if your only philosophy is "train hard", and you give no consideration to what you're training in or how, then you have to include all styles of gongfu in your definition of "overanalytical jargon". it would just be older "overanalytical jargon". by that same logic, training hard in walking a tightrope would make you "good" in a fight.

weightlifting at least has proven effects on a person's strength. it's true that a lot of these fitness experts exagerrate the potential benefits, and claim to know more about the human body than they do, but the benefits are there. that separates it by leaps and bounds from a lot of the claims made by "the chi gung people".

[mortal]

"bullshit."

Feeling feisty today? Drinking early?

"if your only philosophy is "train hard", and you give no consideration to what you're training in or how, then you have to include all styles of gongfu in your definition of "overanalytical jargon". it would just be older "overanalytical jargon". by that same logic, training hard in walking a tightrope would make you "good" in a fight."

That wasn't my point. Of course you need a good teacher. Who said not to give consideration? Not me. I have had all top qualtiy teachers. They are not fitness gurus. They all just train the $hit out of you. I don't sit around with them having long conversations about diet or weightlifting. Or analysing what days to train and rest.

"weightlifting at least has proven effects on a person's strength. it's true that a lot of these fitness experts exagerrate the potential benefits, and claim to know more about the human body than they do, but the benefits are there. that separates it by leaps and bounds from a lot of the claims made by "the chi gung people"."

I guess my argument is that I think kungfu is the ultimate fitness exercises.

[zachsan]

Feeling feisty today? Drinking early?

lol... define "early". but no, actually.

That wasn't my point. Of course you need a good teacher. Who said not to give consideration? Not me.

i know it wasn't your point. that's why i was taking what you said to its natural conclusion, because i knew you wouldn't agree with that conclusion. my point is that traditional MA could be dismissed as overanlytical jargon, too. so it's not a good idea just to dismiss stuff for that reason.

I guess my argument is that I think kungfu is the ultimate fitness exercises.

okay. why do you think that?

[mortal]

Define early. Hmmm. Before 2:00 pm Arthur. lo

I just feel kungfu training improves your overall fitness in many ways. It has made me more skillful in many areas such as in handball, basketball, skateboarding and snowboarding. My overall agility and cardio is better than ever. These other sports require it but don't develop it.

Point being just find a good teacher go to class and train with spirit(more chi!).
We should be putting ALL of our time and energy into that. My job gives me a fancy gym memebership. I can't use it because I am so tired from training. Why cut into training time to lift weights? I don't think developing that type of strength is nessecary. Unless your in construction or your a home mover. Fighting wise it doesn't help you. Unless your in a sport match were your hitting each other with gloves. In a street fight one or two super fast knuckle to face techs are all you need.

[zachsan]

so you're not really saying gongfu is the best training for fitness, but is better training for fighting, which of course i would agree with.

i say that because, when most people talk about wanting to be fit, they usually mean that they want to look better and feel healthier, and maybe extend their lives a bit; maybe even be able to lift a few more pounds. for most people, being skillful in sports and learning how to defend themselves is something entirely separate from "fitness". and for this kind of fitness, a good diet and conventional exercise, in moderation, will do more for you than gongfu..

[mortal]

Well I mean fitness as well. I just would rather get fit developing skills. I think a hard workout is important just not when it consists of how much you could squat or bench.

I guess my point is kungfu forms and fighting are the best thing for overall fitness. Better than other things you could do. Not as mindless as the treadmill. I just don't understand why people are doing other things besides kungfu training. It covers all areas of fitness.

I train to be fit. That is my main priority. Fighting skill development is a distant second.

[zachsan]

well... there just isn't evidence to back up the claim that gongfu "covers all areas of fitness". nothing can do that, if only because there's more than one kind of "fitness". if you want to be "fit" you need to specify what you want to be "fit" for.

fit for fighting? fit for competing in a bodybuilding contest? fit for being a sumo wrestler? fit for starring in an action movie? fit for understanding einstein's theory of relativity? (you can ignore the last one, i realize you mean physically fit).

someone who is big a bulky will be able to lift more than someone who is lean and quick. both could be seen as "fit", per se, but one is definitely more fit for lifting weights, and one is definitely more fit for gymnastics. you could say that your MA tries to find some balance between the two, but this doesn't make you simply "more fit" than either of them. the big guy is still more fit for lifting weights, and the little guy is still more fit for gymnastics. and all of this probably has little or no effect on the span of your life. so you can't simply define it as longevity, either, which alot of MA practitioners want to do.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

...pee on the folks in China?

1.) I don't know what that means

and

2.) If my assumption is correct, then I am a male and cal pee on the folks from a variety of different angles and postiions.

Also, isometrics=invisible chair? Cause it's such a coincidence you mentioned that, I was just realizing that I haven't done invisible chair and was gonna get back on it just yesterday.

Unfourtunately I haven't done it...yet. lol.

I don't know anything at all about you and how your imaginary friends and their chairs work for you, but if it makes logic and gets your muscles working in the way they should, well yoo can call it what you like

As for "peeing on China ", China to the best of my parental advice when digging deep sand holes, is directly beneath all of us and me being fml, I meant you should direct your pelvis to if totally loose have everything pointing 0 degrees beneath. Tuck your pelvis and draw up through your hips straighening your spine. I don't want to be too cool to have you understand, because really, this is very good professional advice.

Oh and LYF or OF or whoever that was that asked, pilates is just a branch of callesthinics( feel free to google the term ) based on principals of iso kentic exercise, where you tense and move through a usually quite lateral movement incorperating and engaging more of the muscle group for longer provinding potential to build more intense contractions and improve everything from flexibilty to strength to endurance to means to scultp the exact body you think you need pending your particular goals for the period.

Marie Windsor does a great USA version and AOS does a respectable series for Aus. Do yoursaelf a search and for a laugh let me know because i'll be here cheering you on

BL

[blooming tianshi lotus]

stylee, "extend" your arm out in front of you. now you know.

zach, you are right kettlebells are costly. however, they are only a means to an end.


lotus, most martial arts instructors are not fitness trainers, but on the other hand, most fitness trainers don't know a lot about fighting or war. you wouldn't bring sand to a beach would you??? I think that in order for you to learn properly, you have to have an honest relationship, with yourself, your teachers, and your class. in that order. fighters don't become the greatest because they are invincible, they become the greatest because they strive to know their own weeknesses, as well as yours. and they train to exploit them.
peace.
onefocus.

What a coincidence that I'm both ....... I really liker what yoiu have to say about that trainer / student rtelationship and I really think myself that to give what it takes to succeed and improve you really to feel some measure of respedct and several lvls in order to give what you need to improve. Love your comment so cheers and forgive me because I'm caling you babe ( strictly genric Lotus version of "mate " )

B

[blooming tianshi lotus]

well that's the idea of MA, but conventional wisdom dictates that being stronger in general could give you another edge in a fight. so it's a good idea from the martial standpoint to train for strength alone, in addition to MA practice. the point is that MA teachers are not usually the best informed on the subject of developing strength alone.

if you're practicing xing yi or some other kind of internal art, that's a different story.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that skill and maintenance of fitness ( only one three facets that strength is ) is where it lays !!!??? And skill even above strength. Like you say though , I guess it just depends on your art / discipline

BL

[blooming tianshi lotus]

On the Zach / Mortal discussion, I feel what Mortal is saying but unfortunastely you seemed to have developed some really misleading preconceptions. Imagaine if you could take all of that "train hard " ( and define that btw ???) and aqpply some good old fashioned body mechanics and nutriotnal knowledge to the same thing!! Just a better all round plan right

Sorry you feel that way

BL

[mortal]

My kungfu is pretty damn good both forms and fighting. Despite all my misconceptions. I read some of your posts about all these other exercises you do. Just put all your energy into training kungfu. Why train anything else?

Zachsan eating right doesn't extend your life at all. You mentioned that earlier I thought I should correct you since nobody else has. Everyone is too busy disagreeing with me. When chances are I am better then any of you.

Good luck with your weightlifting and sprints. It will not make you a better fighter.

[zachsan]

i hadn't realized i said that earlier. i agree, nothing you can do probably has much of an effect on your life span.

...actually, going back over it, i didn't say anything like that. i said pretty much the opposite: "all of this probably has little or no effect on the span of your life. so you can't simply define it as longevity, either, which alot of MA practitioners want to do."

[mortal]

WE AGREE! Hallelujah!!!