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Asians "Saving Face" ?

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  • #16
    It's not pride. Not at all. Some of these people do not understand the concept of pride, because they are not capable of understanding the concept of honor. You need one to have the other.

    No, some Asians, and, most, if you talk to Americans that deal with them in the world of business, live by their own self serving rules, without regard for other people's interests or concerns. Especially the ones that come to America. They view America as a gold mine, to get rich in, so that they can send money and stories of fame back to their beloved families in the home land.

    I've seen, dealt with, and lived with this, for years. And, quite frankly, I have a different outlook on Asian culture now. One that I find not necessarily all that impressive.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #17
      Well, their food is tasty. And who doesn't like sake? I mean, really?

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      • #18
        And the whores. We mustn't forget the wonderful service to society these lady's provide. Come to think of it I haven't killed one in over 2 months. I have to get cracking.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by doc
          It's not pride. Not at all. Some of these people do not understand the concept of pride, because they are not capable of understanding the concept of honor. You need one to have the other.

          No, some Asians, and, most, if you talk to Americans that deal with them in the world of business, live by their own self serving rules, without regard for other people's interests or concerns. Especially the ones that come to America. They view America as a gold mine, to get rich in, so that they can send money and stories of fame back to their beloved families in the home land.

          I've seen, dealt with, and lived with this, for years. And, quite frankly, I have a different outlook on Asian culture now. One that I find not necessarily all that impressive.
          doc, ur just a jaded, cynical motherf*cker.......



          <3 =P

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          • #20
            It's a common phenomena, this behavior that you find with Asians that come from the home country to the US (not with those that are born in America). I 've seen it a lot, and I just saw it again, these past few weeks, with my girlfriend, who's no longer my girlfriend. I think the best way to explain it, is as follows.

            When these people are in their home countries, they're subject to a far more restrictive life and lifestyle than they are here in the US. There are a lot more constraints in China and Thailand, restrictions "imposed" by society by nature of family, culture, police, government, upbringing, attitudes, etc. These people grow up in their little fishbowls constantly being reminded as to what their behavior patterns should be.

            It all changes when they're brought to the US. In the US, where society and norms and attitudes are a lot more free and unrestricted, transplanted Asians take wonder at the lifestyles that are more available to them. No longer do they have to watch over their backs and wonder what their families are going to think about what they're doing. No longer do they have to worry about police, cultural or traditional restrictions. They're in America, and they think that this being a "free" society, they watch and see us do most of whatever we damn please.

            But, the problem is, these transplanted Asians are not always educated, or intelligent, or, just savvy about what life in America is really all about. They tend to pick up our bad habits without picking up all of our good habits. They start to think that they can do what everyone else does, but, they don't realize that at least most of us here, grow up with some sort of concept of loyalty, of friendship, of responsibility. We pay taxes, we understand our laws, we understand that even though this is a capitalistic society, the concept of good "customer relations" is an important one, whether it apply towards "customers" or "friends" or people in general. The whole attitude towards laws, interpersonal relationships, business relationships, all gets altered. A "do what I want and **** everyone else" attitude starts to prevail.

            I've got stories about xingwei that will disgust you. His behavior, in my opinion, continues to be abhorrent, especially considering everything that I and the other members of the gang have done for him. But, as I've seen before, it's not atypical.

            You know, what happens to Asian women when they're brought over here, can be nightmarish. Absolutely nightmarish. Stories abound about what happens to relationships, good, solid relationships in their home countries that turn to absolute shit here in America, because these women THINK they understand how to function in our society. Our society eventually chews them up and spits them out. But, they continue moving forward, thinking that they have it all handled.

            They all learn some sort of a lesson. To some degree. Eventually. And, it's a tough one.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #21
              Well, I personally think that "asian attitude" and the asian "business behavior" are two different realms. While I think some of the older asian generations still believe in the saving face concept, honor, loyalty, etc....we are dealing with a new generation here (Generation Y ?). The new generation has no concept of loyalty or honor and doesn't really care about who they use or hurt in the process to promote themselves.

              I have been a victim of being a "friend for benefit" when the only time I heard from a so called friend is when they needed a favor or extreme help in something. Aside from that, I would never hear from them. While I think some asians believe this is accecptable, I don't and sometimes it hurts. So finally I drew the line and said you are on your own. That is really all you can do and it is very hard to watch someone who you really thought was a close friend crash and burn. A lesson learned and sometimes a hard one it is.
              http://americanshaolinkungfu.org/3.html

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              • #22
                While I think some of the older asian generations still believe in the saving face concept, honor, loyalty, etc....we are dealing with a new generation here (Generation Y ?). The new generation has no concept of loyalty or honor and doesn't really care about who they use or hurt in the process to promote themselves.
                I think they've been saying this for some 3,000 years now. Not just Asians, I mean, everyone.

                As I said in another thread, we all have this idea that It Didn't Used To Be This Way. But who knows, really?

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                • #23
                  You're showing your age Zach. But, I think times have changed, and the new society that we live in depends less upon honor and loyalty, and more upon "what can I get".

                  Don't get me wrong, not all Asians are like this. I have some Asian friends who will stick with me to my dying day (Shi De Cheng, Yong, Jackey, etc). But, some of them have a lot to learn, in my opinion, especially xingwei.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #24
                    Yes, I should have said there are those that will stick with you until the end by all means and everyone (not just asians) behave this way. I too was suprised that asians would behave in a way that wasn't "honorable" or "respectful" because as we all know asian traditions have this in its roots and are well known for it.....so who knows
                    http://americanshaolinkungfu.org/3.html

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                    • #25
                      It is part of their tradition, I never said it wasn't. And, when situated within their environment, they tend to act accordingly. It is when they are removed from that environment, that the external pressures to act within a certain way are no longer applicable. And, like any other human, they respond to new environmental pressures.

                      Their problem lies in the fact that they don't know enough about our culture to be able to make proper judgements, or, know how to respond to those external pressures that our society impinges upon them.
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


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                      • #26
                        there are soo many underlying issues here that I don't think it's as simple as if they're hre or there or even where we are to get what perception. They are a struggling generation here atm, struggling with intergrating to the world trade organisation and finally for them a chance to share in some of the wrlds money after so long in suifferance and down that tunnel with no light .........

                        It's sad they're so fake and feel they need to be - but again it's something to admire aswell.they're gettingt hrough Rich and they do what 's gotto be done......

                        sad stuff for both sides of us .......... but just the way it is .......

                        sorry that didn't work 4 u.........




                        Blooming tianshi Lotus

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                        • #27
                          Anyone watch the "China Rises" Documentary on CBC last night?...uh for those of you who get CBC (canadian broadcasting Channel). It was a very interesting look at how china's society is evolving and other such things. Here's the website check it out.
                          "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                          • #28
                            [QUOTE=doc
                            Their problem lies in the fact that they don't know enough about our culture to be able to make proper judgements, or, know how to respond to those external pressures that our society impinges upon them.[/QUOTE]



                            and it works both ways, an american in an "asian" society would be alienated in the same type of fashion.

                            when it all boils down, it all depends on the levels of ignorance that you are dealing with in the people, nothing more.
                            "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by master splinter
                              and it works both ways, an american in an "asian" society would be alienated in the same type of fashion.

                              when it all boils down, it all depends on the levels of ignorance that you are dealing with in the people, nothing more.
                              When I go to an Asian society, and I do quite often, I make sure that I follow the local rules and customs as much as I possibly can. I go out of my way to be nice to people, and act in a responsible fashion. I hire the best attorneys possible so that I make sure that any business that I do, is done responsibly and legally. I understand that when I am in that country, I am there as a GUEST.

                              I'd like to see similar behavior with some of the Asians that I've brought here....
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                              (more comments in my User Profile)
                              russbo.com


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                              • #30
                                Just because the are from another culture does not make them "cultured"...a little late for that, however. I'll bet, while acompanying you, your guests felt entitled...the story would be different if everything wasn't made so damn easy for them. You were too nice, Doc. Those assholes knew it...
                                Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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